Boost Product Adoption Like A GoFundMe Pro PMM
There’s a concept in behavioral economics called status quo bias. It basically says this: people would rather stick to what they know, even when there are better options, because change feels risky. The pain of potentially losing something is stronger than the potential to gain something better. And if you have ever tried to drive adoption, you’ve seen this up close. Even if your product is faster, better, or more efficient, customers can still resist the move because they do not want to change. So part of our job as product marketers is to make the future feel safer than the present, and worth the switch.
So how do you actually do that at scale across an entire customer base? In this episode, we’re breaking down one of the hardest motions in product marketing: driving behavior change and adoption for a new product. And I genuinely could not think of a better person to walk us through it than Keith Blazek. Keith has spent over 13 years driving growth across SaaS and financial services in both B2B and B2C, connecting go to market strategy, acquisition, product adoption, and lifecycle growth, all without ever formally holding the PMM title at GoFundMe Pro, formerly Classy. He was the first customer marketing hire, helped scale the function through Series D, an acquisition, and a major product transformation, and during that time the platform grew from $1B to $2.6B in annual nonprofit donation volume. Now he is here to share the playbook.
Dump the Legos on the Floor, Then Build a System
Keith’s adoption playbook starts the way most teams skip - with an audit. Before you try to convince anyone of anything, you need to know what you are working with. What assets exist? What channels do you have? Where does the product fit in the customer lifecycle? What is actually happening in onboarding and usage today?
He described it as dumping all the Legos on the floor. Get everything out in the open, see the pieces you have, and then build a framework that can move customers from where they are now to where you need them to be. The key here is that it is not one campaign, but a system. Something repeatable that you can refine.
STP, But Make It Practical
From there, Keith goes straight into STP. Segmentation, targeting, positioning. It’s less of a slide and more a decision making tool.
Because in B2B adoption, you are rarely dealing with one buyer. You are dealing with a buying committee, multiple stakeholders, different incentives, different fears, different definitions of success. Keith’s approach was to segment in a way that actually changes your go to market motion, then prioritize where you start based on impact, and position the same core value in a way that lands for the people who need to say yes.
One Message, Multiple Doors In
One of the most useful frameworks Keith shared was Gain, Logic, Fear. Same product, same core value, different entry points depending on who you are talking to.
Some stakeholders need upside. What they will win, what improves, what becomes possible. Others need logic. Numbers, proof, operational clarity. And some need risk framing: what happens if you do not change, what you are exposed to, what you are leaving on the table. It’s not manipulative. It’s just reality. Different people are motivated by different things, and adoption only happens when the message meets the moment.
Messaging Critique: Wealthfront
We also did a messaging critique, and Keith chose Wealthfront. The interesting part was not that the brand is bad at messaging. It’s that even strong brands can get sharper. Keith’s feedback centered on specificity. Clearer product detail, clearer differentiation, and making it easier for the right audience to immediately understand why this is for them.
It was a good reminder that clarity is not a nice to have when you are asking people to change behavior. It’s the whole job.
Close the Loop
Adoption is not the finish line. Once customers adopt, you have to reinforce the value they are now getting. Not just to reduce churn, but to build trust for the next change you will ask them to make.
If you’re trying to drive adoption, switching, upgrading, rolling out, changing behavior, Keith’s playbook is a solid blueprint. Not because it’s flashy, but because it’s built for how people actually decide, actually behave, and actually change.
LINKS
Messaging Critique: https://www.wealthfront.com
Connect with Keith:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-blazek/
Connect with Elle:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elle3izabeth/
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[00:00:42] Elle: There's a concept in behavioral economics called the status quo bias. It basically says this, people would rather stick to what they know, even when there are better options, and that's because change feels risky. The pain of potentially losing something is stronger than the potential. To gain something better.
[00:01:02] Okay, so what does that have to do with product marketing? Well, even if your product is faster, better, or more efficient, your customers could still resist the move because they don't want to change. There's that pain of potentially losing something. So part of our jobs as product marketers is to convince people that the change is worth it, that the future is better than the present.
[00:01:24] So how do you actually do all that at scale across your entire customer base? Today we're breaking down one of the hardest motions in product marketing, making a behavior change to a new, product and driving adoption. And I could not think of a better person to walk us through this than Keith Blaik.
[00:01:44] Keith has spent over 13 years, driving growth across SaaS and financial services in both B2B and B2C, connecting go-to-market strategy, acquisition, product adoption, and lifecycle growth. All without ever formally holding the PMM title [00:02:00] at GoFundMe Pro, formerly classy. He was the first customer at marketing hire.
[00:02:05] Helping scale the function through Series D acquisition and a major product transformation. And during that time, the platform grew from 1 billion to $2.6 billion in annual non-profit donation volume. And now he's here to share his playbook.
[00:02:23] Keith, I'm so excited for this conversation. Welcome to the show.
[00:02:28] Keith: Thank you, Elle. It's, uh, great to be here and I appreciate the kind intro and you inviting me on, even if I've never formally had the PMM title. So it's a, it's a real treat.
[00:02:39] Elle: Hey, with the work that you've been doing and the expertise that you've been driving, you are our honorary PMM, and let's be real at mo. Most organizations, a lot of that work would be a product marketer's job anyway, so, okay. Let's dive right in. I can't imagine anyone would not know this, but maybe just to get everyone on the same page, like what is GoFundMe Pro?
[00:03:02] I'm sure. Everybody has probably used GoFundMe, or at least seen it before, but what is GoFundMe Pro?
[00:03:09] Keith: Yeah, no, great question. 'cause it's, it's new, about a little less than a year old, um, or at least by the time we're recording this, but most simply, GoFundMe Pro is the B2B software side of GoFundMe. And so prior to being acquired by GoFundMe and rebranding last May, the company was called Class. Classy was a nonprofit fundraising platform based in San Diego.
[00:03:34] And so as we continue and to keep things simple, I'm gonna use the word classy, particularly because that's the, was included in the product name. and also kind of ground us in the moment at the time of the case study we're discussing. But GoFundMe Pro?
[00:03:48] is B2B software solutions for the nonprofit audience that is part of the broader GoFundMe ecosystem.
[00:03:56] Elle: Perfect. So while most of us are probably more familiar with [00:04:00] the traditional B2C, GoFundMe, we're talking more about the B2B offering, um, which was classy. So, We'll, we'll stick to that for this first segment of our show, the case study segment. And this is what I'm really excited about because it's, it's a really big rock.
[00:04:16] This, huge project that, that you did and ran it, it touches so many different things and you were able to totally transform your customer base. You had so many big lessons coming out of it. So let's get started. Take us back in time. Walk us through when you had to, drive adoption of this core product across your entire customer base.
[00:04:36] Like give us a lay of the land of what was going on when you realized that needed to happen.
[00:04:41] Keith: Sure, yeah. It's, it was, um, immediately from, from when I joined, so Classy was at an inflection point. Point and eyeing the next phase of growth. previously, over the years, the company had built really strong brand equity in the nonprofit fundraising space, but was entering a new phase. And, uh, the first all hands I ever joined was the founder stepping down and handing off to the new CEO.
[00:05:07] And the first email I ever sent was announcing our series D. Commitment to double the size of our product and engineering team. And so in addition to that, like many growing companies, we were implementing A new marketing automation platform as I onboarded, refreshing the brand, the website. And so there was just a lot going on.
[00:05:29] Elle: A lot of change all
[00:05:30] Keith: yes, yes. As as, as anyone who's in that phase knows it's fast paced and. all encompassing. but the, the nice thing was that the org structure matched this new phase. And so they had just established a post-sales team maybe a few months prior, uh, to me joining. And they brought me on as the first customer marketing hire.
[00:05:53] And, and the initial remit, uh, when I was interviewing was. When I asked, you know, what, what does success look [00:06:00] like was, we want you to build the demand gen engine into the customer base. and so that was my how I and I started on the demand gen team. but the first thing that, that very immediately became clear was the demand I was generating was for our product.
[00:06:19] And the first product in which this was, uh, needed was classy pay. And so Classy Pay was one of the company's three strategic priorities for the year, and it was really a, uh, foundation for all of the future product innovation to come starting. With that payment layer and building from the ground up. And so, that was, uh, actually one of, in my intro, uh, period, I actually met with one of the pmms and, and just like the, Hey, what do you do?
[00:06:48] What do you, uh, you know, the introduction to a new company? And she goes. Hey, Keith, you know, It's great that you're here. I am gonna be leaving, uh, to meta here in, a week and I heard that you're gonna be taking on classy pay, and so here's. Everything, um, for that we know where we're at and like, you're gonna, you're gonna run point on this.
[00:07:08] And so that was, uh, that was how things started, you know, within the first couple weeks. And so I jumped into the product marketing world immediately, even if that wasn't, you know, formally, uh, kind of part of the job description or, uh, the, the name.
[00:07:23] Elle: Little different than what you were expecting. You're like, okay, so I thought I was going to be doing just this, you know, driving to band, but oh, I am also now launching and driving product adoption. Okay, here we
[00:07:34] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Which was, which was really an a ver a gift in a lot of ways because it forced me to. Really dive in and get to know the product. You know, going to such a foundational level, you know, it's not just, you know, a lot of marketing, particularly outside of product marketing. It's, you know, content or messaging or ads and some of the things that you find in demand gen.
[00:07:59] Um, but [00:08:00] this was really. Product marketing at, at its core, and which I think is, I think of product marketing as the most core aspect of marketing. Um, and so it really was, uh, it was a, a fun project. but it was a great, great way to learn and really get into roadmaps and sprints and all the things that come with a product organizations.
[00:08:23] Elle: Absolutely. Oh my gosh. I feel like we should do another whole episode where we just talk about your, kind of like career discovery into product marketing. so when you've realized this, okay, so I'm taking back to the moment you just started. There's all this massive change that's happening in the organization and.
[00:08:38] you're now given this huge project. How did you even begin to approach that?
[00:08:44] Keith: Yeah. Yeah, great question. So continuing on the, the context setting at this time, about 60% of the donation volume, and I'll. May use the acronym. GDV was kind of gross. Donation volume
[00:08:57] Elle: I was gonna say gross donation
[00:08:58] Keith: Yeah,
[00:08:59] how much is coming through the platform? Was, is the, one of the primary KPIs, and so about 60% of that was on classy pay, but the features were light wi, but about to start rolling out a whole suite of, uh, capabilities and things to the Classy pay, product line.
[00:09:17] And those remaining 40% of the GDV. Was fragmented across different processors. Um, and obviously as, as is often the case with either go to market or adoption, the biggest opportunities were still lagging and they were concentrated in the enterprise segment. And so overall we had product momentum. We didn't have, particularly with a new post-sales team, a new customer marketing hire, and all of that was happening in the company.
[00:09:46] We didn't have a system-wide adoption or go-to-market system for customer growth specifically, and adoption was required. Uh, classy Pay Adoption was acquired to unlock this next phase of business, and [00:10:00] so my job was to drive the product marketing and adoption strategy for classy pay across the customer base, while also kind of building the innovation narrative that is going to fuel the rest of the increased velocity to come over the next several years.
[00:10:16] because this was, you know, year one of, of five. And so, uh, this was a great, great starting point.
[00:10:22] Elle: I was, no small feet,
[00:10:24] Keith: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
[00:10:26] Elle: no problem. Yeah.
[00:10:28] Keith: Yeah.
[00:10:29] And the one of, you know, it was, the reality was this wasn't just like a feature launch because classy pay was the product and then, you know, digital wallets would be one, and then recurring frequencies would be another set and then PayPal and Venmo.
[00:10:42] And so, it was really a it holistic way that, uh, across the base of how do we kind of talk about where we're going and what we're prioritizing. but what I quickly learned that this wasn't just like, oh, turn the feature on in a product it required because of its nature as this foundational piece, as the payment infrastructure.
[00:11:05] It required, contract changes, and then operational, like migration for the customer in which they had to rip and replace, their product thing. And so. You know, you get into contracts and rates and fees and so quickly I realized that, um, this wasn't just a, Hey, this feature is available. Here's how to turn it on, and why it.
[00:11:30] Yeah, there wasn't a button. Um, actually we had to cr create and build some of those buttons. and so that was an interesting learning, uh, and, and really was where realized that the real task was we have to build. The go to market system and get these customer growth teams who would be doing that. Kind of all orchestrating in concert with marketing product, marketing lifecycle, um, and the product team for the in product behavior.
[00:11:58] and really, you know, I [00:12:00] always looked at it as we're building the customer growth engine. And this is something that ultimately we'd be able to use and re and reuse and refine for all the future products to come. And so my goal really was, we at 60, we want to get to a hundred. Like every customer is classy pay.
[00:12:17] We, they all need to be on it. And so that was kind of, uh, what what I was looking at as we started.
[00:12:23] Elle: Okay, so, you, so I wanna call out something that, that I think a lot of pmms, maybe miss here, like you, like a lot of pmms really express like benefits, right? Uh, benefits of a product. But I think what you had to do is you had to like, take that a step further as you started to think through.
[00:12:45] You know, convincing, like, take us back to the idea of like, change, right? And changing behavior. And to your point, like it wasn't just going to one persona to say, Hey, here's the button. Well, you had to create a series of buttons to do that, but here's how you do it. But because of the nature of the product and the the, as you pointed out, the contracts.
[00:13:09] That needed to be signed and everything. You probably had an entire, buy team of stakeholders within the customer's organization that you needed to touch and change their mind in some way. And before you could even do that, you had to go back and create those internal go to market systems within your own teams.
[00:13:29] So this is quite a lot. Of change management and convincing and persuasion that needed to come into play here. So how did you do that? Like, you know, I know we're gonna get into the playbook and stuff and you know, you, we have, um, and I and I, you had this big goal, big lofty goal of taking like 60% to a hundred percent of customer classy or, uh, customers to get onto classy.
[00:13:53] but give me like the. the, the high level, tactic or strategy that you use [00:14:00] to, to really express some of those, or moving away from product Ben, just product benefit to actually, convincing all of these different stakeholders to get on board with this vision.
[00:14:13] Keith: Yeah, I think you know. One bite at a time is, is kind of, is really the, the approach is how do you, how do you wrap your arms around all of this? And I, I often use the analogy of Legos, where often if I'm starting a project or figuring out a new campaign type, it's All right, let's just dump the Legos on the floor.
[00:14:34] Then start seeing what are the pieces we have available and, and how can we start to build a, a system or a framework in which it allows us to go from A to Z and that, that from to component. Um, but I think it was, you know, when I think back at this project, it was. A blessing in the sense that it was product marketing plus B2B gonna market in the sense that you quickly learned this is a multiple buyer persona buying committee.
[00:15:03] there isn't going to be one message that's going to move the needle on all of these. And, and when you looked across the customer base. Everyone was at, at different, needs or problems or stages. And so really started by just dumping everything into a spreadsheet and just like, what is the go to market foundation that we have?
[00:15:23] Or where are we at? Kind of like an audit of, you know, what, what assets do we have? Do we have a landing page? Do we have, you know, a core value proposition and things like that. where. Does classy pay fit within the lifecycle? And really, you know, the benefit of coming in new was I didn't have any preconceived notions.
[00:15:44] And so I really would, could, could look at this as. What's really happening? How do people onboard, how do people, you know, use the platform? How do they, when do they log in and log out? who are the key people that are using it? you know, then moving into like, [00:16:00] okay, segmentation. Um, and so this who, when we look across the enterprise segment, when we look across.
[00:16:07] Mid-market and the emerging segments. so just really kind of like getting your, wrapping your arms around and just dumping it into the spreadsheet and trying to think, okay, where are we at? And, and now what do we need to start building? Where are the gaps? Where the, where are the areas we can refine?
[00:16:23] And so that was kind of step one was just ingestion intake and trying to organize things into a go to market motion. the second thing was then. I always start kind of with an STP approach, and so the segmentation, the targeting and the positioning. if, you know, I'm ever unsure, that's usually a place where I start is who are we, who are we talking to?
[00:16:45] What are they, how are they unique and different, and vary from each other. How do we wanna prioritize within those segments? Who's the most valuable, the most profitable, or the iic, the ideal, profile? And then how do we position those, uh, various things? And so, uh, when I looked at the segmentation, it's, you know, I mentioned by the customer type or the size, um, was one way.
[00:17:09] where they're at in the life cycle was another. And so attaching this product within onboarding. Was the E was the first place that said, Hey, every person we get to onboard on classy pay is one less customer that we're going to need to get adopting later. So you're creating, by getting it in adoption, you're creating less need for adoption down later in the life cycle.
[00:17:36] you know, and then you know, which processor are they using? There was difference and how we compared and how we wanted to position or flex different areas of value proposition depending on their current provider. and then lastly, it was, it was kind of like within that segment type of revenue potential.
[00:17:55] So we really did a, a, a good job of identifying, you [00:18:00] know, because of the nature of a payment processor, volume makes a big difference. And so getting somebody who's doing, you know, plus millions of, uh, dollars per year has an outsized impact on revenue for the company than a smaller or even 10 or 15 smaller organizations.
[00:18:19] And so that. Piece of, of really understanding the market, and in this case, the market is just the customer base. but under understanding the market, where you can kind of create levels of, entry points or ways to frame it and then prioritizing and really getting clear on, how do you, you one rock at a time, but if you can use the big rocks first.
[00:18:44] You're really, um, establishing a, a more durable and a more impactful kind of way of, of going about it, knowing also that, you know, those big rocks are harder and take longer. And so start the clock there and then move back to some of the, maybe the, the slower segments. And so that was kind of the initial, uh, starting point.
[00:19:06] and then once you have a, a lay of the land and you've ci kind of mapped the, the market scape. It's okay, how do, how can we position this based on what we know of who they are, what provider they use, what things matter to them in this current, uh, stage? And then, you know, when I was doing like the demand gen, the email marketing, the launches, and the messaging, we would do this over the course of the entire year.
[00:19:31] And so how do you continue to promote something without it just being a. Repeat of the exact same email. And so flexing between a gain logic, fear, um, sequence is something that I've, I've used in my, previous, you know, the retail financial services area. And that's a, a good framework of just how do you keep talking about the value, but in a way that could appeal to different people who I'm a, I think in logic.
[00:19:59] [00:20:00] Okay, great. You're gonna need numbers as opposed to somebody else who. Is going to be, I'm really adamant about our donor experience. And so there's different, how do you invite different stakeholders and different organizations in to the core value? in different ways it was kind of a, a key aspect of it.
[00:20:18] Um, so that, that was kind of the initial starting point of our, how do we start to create an architect, what we need to drive this adoption.
[00:20:25] Elle: I love this. I need to call out a couple things that just as you've been talking, I was taking a couple mental notes on what I wanted to call out. So one thing, and there are there, these are things that I have in my experience that around my career I have noticed that really strong product marketers do this.
[00:20:41] Really strong marketers in general do this. those who first and foremost understand the business. So you made it very clear just as you're kind of laying out this, you know, the strategy that you took and. you know, the task at hand, you paid very close attention to the business, the business health and things that moved the levers for the business.
[00:21:02] and you incorporated that into the strategy for classy adoption. And then the second thing that you did, which I think is. another thing that not all pmms do. So I mentioned earlier that a lot of pmms when they're doing storytelling or messaging, like they focus a lot on. Benefits, product benefits, and they miss, I guess, the opportunity to have that emotional connection with a customer, uh, or with their, the buying team, not even just the target persona, the entire buying team.
[00:21:37] And I think with your framework, um, what did you call it? You called the, like The gain logic.
[00:21:42] Keith: gain ga. Yeah, the GLF Gain logic, fear. is just a, a, yep. Yep.
[00:21:47] Elle: Yeah, I think that's a really strong way to think about like the emotional, how you're going to ignite the emotion for, you know, various stakeholders. And there's lots of different frameworks out there to use, right?
[00:21:58] It doesn't have to be that [00:22:00] one, but that one works really well. It worked really well for this particular scenario. so. Yeah, it's just not a lot of pmms do that, particularly ones that are, you know, junior just in their career. Just take some learning. I, I've probably made some of those mistakes early on in my career too.
[00:22:13] But, um, uh, anyway, Bravo, like tremendous, I think impact, obviously tremendous impact, you know, that you had in building trust with your customers too, right.
[00:22:23] Keith: Yeah.
[00:22:23] Well I think what the thing about the the gain logic fear is you can replace that with whatever. frames you want. I think the key to me is that it's how do you take the same thing but frame it in different ways, knowing that everyone's different. Like there's, you know, particularly in B2B, it's easy to get.
[00:22:45] Like laser focused on firmographic stuff of we sell to a business and I it's no, you sell to people in a business. And so, uh, one of the things I always hold in my brain is we're not, optimizing landing pages, but we're optimizing thought sequences and this idea that like how do you get people who think and have different goals and aspirations and feelings about stuff?
[00:23:13] To all land in the same destination, but know how do I create the path that.
[00:23:19] will bring that person along and that person along, and that person along. And so that's, uh, kind of the, the approach. And, and that was really the, you know, as we move into like, how do, how do we take, okay, we've got the. Landscape and what we need. We've got our message kind of map in which we could use it. Then it's okay, now we gotta build, build the engine. And so this is the the promotional aspect of, you know, if we think product and and positioning, and now it's okay, how do we now get this out in front of customers?
[00:23:50] And all the different channels and, and, uh, assets and levers that we have at our disposal. And so this was really looking at this not as, like, this wasn't [00:24:00] like a launch campaign. Obviously there were launch moments, um, but it wasn't a years long goal of having this always on, uh, motion so that we could use running.
[00:24:13] Even when it's the lead car and it's the primary thing that we're promoting, but how do we create it in a way so that this engine is still on and available and plugged into when a different product is launched and gets the thing or content
[00:24:27] Elle: Yeah. It kind of gets inserted into multiple campaigns that could be all kind of driving at the same time.
[00:24:33] Keith: Yes, yes. Yeah. And so, you know, in this stage it's okay, how do we identify the trigger moments within the life cycle? How do we ensure that we're having, you know, all of the assets and channels? Like, all right, we've got our email campaign running. How do we take those and elevate or reinforce them? Within the in product experience.
[00:24:55] And so moving beyond the inbox where I get an email, I see it in the product, I'm now on social, all kind of reinforcing the same things. And then also, you know, equipping the post-sales team. They were front and center, one of the primary drivers of this initiative. Um, they were the ones going and doing the contract changes and negotiations, and so equipping them with.
[00:25:20] Thinking of them as a channel in and of itself. And so thinking of how can we have, uh, vary the messaging, like if we're thinking email marketing of brand level message, personal message, but like you can say the same thing but with a different frame. And some people will see as a human reaching out, the other one will see this.
[00:25:41] But they're all kind of orchestrated and reinforcing and cross-promoting one another so that. Each of the sums adds up to a greater whole. Um, and so one of my philosophies that. I've, maintained is you reinforce the last positive behavior and then you [00:26:00] prescribe the next logical step
[00:26:02] Elle: I
[00:26:02] love that. I love that because then you're, you're telling them, and you probably have to say it multiple times, but it's like you're, you're still bringing them along. The journey doesn't just stop at, okay, I did the thing. Like I clicked the link. I pressed the button, I. Did whatever I needed to do.
[00:26:20] You're continuing to engage.
[00:26:22] Keith: Mm-hmm. And that's, Yeah. that's a a way where, how do you create the contextual entry points towards the thing? Classy pay is what we want, but okay, this. Behavior of a customer. Oh, they, they logged in recently and went to the reporting page. Okay, what does, how can we route that towards Class C Pay? Oh, they're launching a new campaign.
[00:26:46] Okay, how do we, we don't wanna derail them from that success, but how do we tie it back to Class C Pay? And so that was, um, a core kind of operating philosophy. And then how do you now think, now thinking through that of like, what's this funnel? So really zooming out of awareness. Do they even know classy pay exists?
[00:27:08] You know, is, and, and there's, that takes time too. It's not just like, Hey, we launched it. What, where's the adoption? it's okay. Well we have to make sure they know they, most people didn't open the first email. And so that's kind of what are the things when I get back to the audit within that document, what do we have to help us make sure we're expanding a solution awareness.
[00:27:30] Across the base and how can we track to see indicators of like, Yeah.
[00:27:35] no, they're aware, they've engaged in some capacity with content or landing page or whatever. Then what is the next thing that indicates, all right, they're showing interest. It's not just, you know, passive consumption, but they're looking at.
[00:27:49] Evaluation assets or, you know, signing up for, you know, the signup, the demo or the signup page was a key kind of conversion point for us to kind of move them to that next [00:28:00] phase and then Okay. Even when they signed the contract. And they say, okay, yeah, we'll do it. That is still not adoption. And so we track it, Hey, this is a closed one.
[00:28:14] They've got it, but they still have to go into the product, turn it on, connect the pipes, for lack of a better word. and so that was one of the areas where we found, that stalled activation became, uh, its own segment where Over the course of a year, we would see, oh, okay.
[00:28:33] Like look at these people all signed. They're all ha, but like it's still not on. And so is that, did they get caught up with something else? Did they all of a sudden change their mind? And so we had that own its own bucket and would work on a stalled activation re-engagement campaign. And so knowing that, you know, none of these things are gonna be linear, trying to figure out where within this funnel of adoption are we.
[00:29:01] Stuck. Where do we need more? Where's there a log jam? And so, that's where we would, you know, with target specific interventions for that cohort, follow up with the person who they worked with to, to close the deal, continue popping in product messages so that it's like, Hey, last step, you just have to.
[00:29:17] Turn the button on. Turn the button on. and then, you know, and so the next phase as we're, as we're going through this and try to not take forever breaking this down, um, but then how do you operationalize this across the team? And so a good example of that stalled adoption was, or ops team created. A dashboard, classy pay adoption dashboard that really operationalized all these concepts of which segments, which ones, where are they at within the funnel, and put it up so everyone could see.
[00:29:48] Here's our top 50 GoGets, here's our top that are
[00:29:52] in the, you know, implementation funnel. Here's the top stack ranked. And then you could sort it by [00:30:00] segment team, individual
[00:30:02] Elle: it's a really great way to get all the stakeholders kind of on the same page and making sure that everybody has access to the same metrics and we're all like speaking the same language around why we're doing this and where we need to go.
[00:30:13] Keith: Yes. Yeah, CRI critical. And that was a, a key aspect of all of this. Like, yes, I'm running the product marketing and, and building the engine, but like, it really was because it benefited from being a strategic priority for the company is we had buy-in and alignment from all of the different stakeholders.
[00:30:31] And we would meet weekly to just. Talk through, where are we at? What do we need? Where are people getting stuck? What are the things that you are hearing from your team that they could use help with? And so that's where things like ROI calculators were created as a output of, hey, we're, people are cool, but we need to get them to that final, you know, the logic based appeal.
[00:30:54] and then, you know, operationalizing is how do you scale this? You know, you can't just have. Individual, uh, CSMs or account teams doing all of these things. And so we built a, or I built a landing page that kind of became this central hub where from our email, our marketing, all CTAs would route here if someone, someone had our core value proposition that we spliced and, and promoted a lot of different ways.
[00:31:21] And then once that happened, trigger would go to the account manager. Trigger would go to ops, it would end enter us into the dashboard. And so it.
[00:31:31] was allowed us to kind of help accelerate the adoption with some of this more scaled motions, as we were going out and just repeatedly, again, month over month, over month, over month.
[00:31:43] Not sometimes you're tracking, well, other times not. But the goal is that how do you just continue to brief execute on this strategy? Consistently repeatably until by the end of the year you look up and, and things are looking good. So,
[00:31:58] Elle: Okay, so you gotta give [00:32:00] us the big reveal, like what happened, you said this was a like, you know, years long. Project or initiative. What, what The initial goal was to get, you were at 60% adoption. You wanted to get to, I think you said like 80, a hundred percent was kind
[00:32:17] of the, the near term, long-term target.
[00:32:19] What was the end? What happened after 12 months?
[00:32:22] Keith: Yeah.
[00:32:22] Yeah.
[00:32:23] So the, the goal was e everyone, we want everyone on it. Like there, there was the ceiling was the roof. Um, but we, yeah, by the end of that calendar year, and so I, you know, coming in, probably starting around May, it was last seven, eight months, we ended up getting to around 88% of total GDD from 60 to 88.
[00:32:42] Um, but then
[00:32:43] Elle: That's really good. Within less, that's less than a year.
[00:32:47] Keith: Oh Yeah.
[00:32:48] Yeah. It was a, the first few months, um, which was exciting, um, because you, once you started seeing the engine working, then it, it's a matter of, okay, let's continue doing this. But That's again, where you get kind of back to where we started of the segmentation and targeting where it provided really clear visibility into.
[00:33:15] Where are the big rocks? Where are the ones that, you know, overall the health of adoption is, is looking strong, but these are the areas where we need help. And so that would orient the go-to market or the product marketing strategy to say, oh, okay, we're running, we're running into a blocker in the evaluation stage or with the rates.
[00:33:36] And so we would, you know, it would occasionally would come up with, You know, promotional packages of like an offer of, Hey, do this now. And so all of that, by the time we're in the first, second quarter of the year, so like around a full calendar year, we had cleared 97, 90, you know, 98% of
[00:33:54] Elle: That's
[00:33:56] Keith: and it became the, the one [00:34:00] provider with the exception of a handful of edge cases.
[00:34:02] And so really
[00:34:03] transformed. Yeah.
[00:34:05] no, it was a exciting, and you know, again, a. Collective company, strategic priority. But it was also, you know, satisfying to see how do you, you come in with a plan and a goal and a strategy. And so seeing it pay off and work, uh, within a, a relatively short window is, was, uh, very encouraging.
[00:34:26] Elle: The biggest things that stand out to me from your story are that you, had all your stakeholders and you guys, you know, we are on the same ship and you're all rowing the same direction. Like you are so in sync with what needed to be done every step of the way. So when you were evaluating, you know, metrics or status or health or whatever of this initiative.
[00:34:50] You could say, okay, now we need, um, to, double click in on this particular segment or subsegment and now we can shift our talents across the team to get this one where it needs to be. And that is, um, not very, it's hard to get there. It's hard to achieve that in and of itself. But then in addition to that, then the other thing that stood out to me is just your.
[00:35:13] keen sense of how to build the segmentation and then how to speak to each of the segments. I think those are the two, those are the biggest things that stand out to me around probably driving a lot of the success. I know that it's such a big team effort and there are probably tens, and I don't even know how many people are probably involved.
[00:35:31] Maybe close to a hundred internal folks.
[00:35:33] Keith: Uh, I wouldn't, yeah. but it was, yeah, A large undertaking. Um,
[00:35:37] yeah. Yeah. Who like helped get us there. Okay. So, we spent a lot of time on the story in the case study, which is great, and, and you've already, I think in just how explaining what the case study is and.
[00:35:50] Elle: You know, your entire story, we've uncovered a lot of what the playbook would be. But like, let's say, let's just do a mini mock coaching session right now where, [00:36:00] let's say like I'm trying to drive adoption in, you know, one of my products and I'm like, Hey, listen, like Keith is the guy, he's done it. Like, coach me, teach me how to do it.
[00:36:12] Like where do I need to start? In order to achieve anything close to the level of success that you saw, where do I get started?
[00:36:21] Keith: Yeah, great question. And so I think, you know, I start with We want to create something repeatable so it's, yes, you want to adopt. This one thing, but I always try to think of more system and, and how do we drive this transformation in revenue beyond just adoption? Um, and so again, if, when we get to I'm entering, I wanna adopt, I need to drive adoption for whatever it may be, I start with the segment and targeting and positioning.
[00:36:50] Um, in addition to just like the intake and inventory of where are we at today? Um, just getting a real firm understanding. Of who Like understanding your customer, understanding your product, and then what makes it valuable and, and where within that customer's experience can we start to interject or position or orient them towards this adoption frame.
[00:37:17] So really getting a lay of the land of with a customer first kind of starting point.
[00:37:20] Elle: Yes. I love your perspective on segmentation, so it's not just looking at your, you know, sales data and product data to segment your customer base, but it's also. it's almost like creating like a psychological profile to get the context of what that looks like from the customer's perspective to be in that segment.
[00:37:41] so that's really interesting. Okay. And a very core PMM muscle. Uh, so then what do I do next? Let's say, okay, I've done that step. I got a ton of insights. I got my segmentation. What do I do next?
[00:37:51] Keith: Yeah.
[00:37:52] So the first one, if I am blank, why should I, and so like, we're we first kind of identify. Who am I? And that's [00:38:00] the segment targeting position. Next is, you know, getting, getting a feel for what you have. Where there, like what assets already exist, if any, where would you, um, you know, what channels do you have?
[00:38:12] What assets and levers. Do you have at your disposal, you know, some product launches and things that I've worked on, it's, there's zero budget and so like your channels are, email your, any in product messages you can do, and the teams that are engaging with customers, others, and so like just really getting a.
[00:38:32] All Right, I know who we, you are trying to appeal to of, and all the, um, varieties in that, that fit. Then what do we have? What, what do I.
[00:38:41] have at our disposal to then reach those people And what, and, and where do maybe the channels or where you can engage them or what assets maybe don't speak to some parts.
[00:38:54] And, and so really kind of connecting the who and the what in that,
[00:38:58] Elle: Mm mm Okay. So in the second step, it's almost doing an audit of what do I have available to me in order to speak. To those, like what are the communication channels? I have to reach all of these segments and then the like, now what do I say or what, what, what do I use? What's the medium that I'm medium of choice to, um, get my, um, my message out there?
[00:39:25] Um, okay. And then what's step three?
[00:39:28] Keith: Yeah, step three. So I, again, we'll kind of, we'll build it as we go. If I am this customer, why should I adopt blank rather than not adopting it or using something else or insert any other trade off, uh, decision that is. And so from there then it's solution mapping. And so how do we match this right message to the right customer at the right moment and focus on who they are, where whatever they're at, starting there [00:40:00] and then figuring out what's the path I can get 'em to my objective and destination.
[00:40:05] And so it's sort of like a reverse engineering of it that isn't. Uh, it's customer focused as opposed to, Hey, we're gonna just blast this email to
[00:40:16] everybody and our product
[00:40:18] is launched. Why isn't anyone signing up?
[00:40:22] Elle: This is, uh, maybe the most important step.
[00:40:25] Keith: Yes.
[00:40:27] Elle: Because it's making, it's, it's giving your customer, I think you said it earlier, like giving, maybe it's not quite this, but I'm, you, you talked about giving, prescribing the next step, right? This sounds like maybe it's that like telling them where to go and how to do it.
[00:40:43] Um, I know it's different from what you're saying 'cause we're talking more about alternatives, but like you're prescribing a different, an alternative to what they are currently doing, um, in order to achieve whatever they're trying to achieve.
[00:40:54] Keith: Yes. Yeah. And it's, you know, this, you could take this approach in this step. The solution mapping, you're right, it's a, it's the most important, and I find it as it's a. Always on iteration, which we'll kind of get to as we move through the playbook. Um, but it's a constant, Hey, this person right here, this is what's best for them.
[00:41:14] This is what's best for them. Um, and it, you know, it can apply to their lifecycle, their segment, but also when you get into the different personas. And so mapping a solution of the, of class epay to a funder, a development director, or the digital marketing manager, is different than doing it to the CFO. Or the head of finance.
[00:41:36] And so how do, how do you map The solution that is inherent in the product, but framed in the way to the individual person or the state? And so the solution is everything. It's all about understanding the context of each one of your customers and their world. My world as a marketer looks different from, you know, Joe Schmoe's world as a CFO. [00:42:00] It's just, that just looks different. So the way that they engage with their product looks different and making sure that your speaking their language and telling a story in a way that they're going to care to understand, not even just, of course, they can understand it, you know.
[00:42:14] Elle: They're not rocks like they, and we're all humans. We have brains. But, um, it's, it's more about getting them to care. And that's why we take the e make the effort to speak in their, in the terms of their context. Um, okay, so I'm doing that. You're telling the story story in a total, in a bunch of, you know, totally different ways.
[00:42:35] Um. Again, and that's, it's a lot of that solution mapping, which I have done so many times in my career. And it is, it, it's quite a lot of work. Again, it can take, it takes a lot of time in doing some customer research and understanding, you know, maybe even some prioritization of like, which. Use cases I should go after first.
[00:42:56] And you know, I think you mentioned earlier, getting some like big rocks in and maybe those are the ones to prioritize. what do I do next? What happens after I've, I've done the solution mapping, you know, and I'm, is it, is it building out, I guess, is that part of, is part of that solution mapping, like building out the story for each of those
[00:43:18] Keith: Y Yeah, I would say like solution mapping and then go to market to me are kind of like two sides of the same. And so you can do it in like the planning phase, but knowing that this was, you know, an ongoing years long. Adoption initiative that some of the, it wasn't as all a straight linear, like, alright, now we have all of our solution maps mapped.
[00:43:45] Now we go It. It was kind of, and so this is where the feedback loops become especially helpful because, you know, it's easy for me as the marketer to say like. Here's your solution team, like go [00:44:00] forth and drive adoption. Um, but then like where the insights and the real value was refining the solution from hearing from the sales team or the, uh, the teams that are working with customers or, you know, the lifecycle team would be able to call out and say, Hey, here's.
[00:44:20] Where people are getting stuck or we're getting a lot of blank, but whatever, we can't get why. and so this was where, it's where like the refinement and also the targeting and prioritization kind of can live. Um, because it's, you know, you don't, you don't ever want to, like, you have a core value proposition, um, but the solution and how do you make it real for the vast, across the entire customer base and all the.
[00:44:47] Variety and, and ambiguity that that entails. You'll need to kind of have this constant, okay.
[00:44:54] that, oh, there's a gap. And then the key was once you could identify that in a, in a vac or in a silo, how applicable is that? Oh, that's something that we can now use to enhance everything else. And so those, those feedback loops would be a cri critical aspect of the, the mapping.
[00:45:12] So the solution mapping component.
[00:45:14] Elle: Yeah. Perfect. Okay. So we've talked a lot about, feedback loops and how important that is, for iteration. So coming back to your playbook for this, and looking back in your. Career for when you were driving this initiative? I guess like, help me understand what role AI plays in all of this. Again, like, I think at the time when you were probably driving this, there, of course there was ai, but you know, it's every day it's moving so much faster.
[00:45:46] There's new tools and the tools are getting more sophisticated every day. so if, again, if you're coaching me on this, like assume like I've done my solution mapping like. I've done my segmentation, I've, I've got my feedback loops in [00:46:00] place with all of my stakeholders. Now, coach me on ai. Like where do, how do I consider AI in all of this?
[00:46:07] And, and how should, what tools should I be using and should I automate? What should I automate? What's your guidance?
[00:46:13] Keith: Yeah, it's, you know, there wasn't, AI wasn't embedded into every aspect of working life back in 2021, but it, so it's amazing how much it's changed. And I think, you know, to me it's about accelerating and scaling those feedback loops. And so if you, if you can architect the system and the engine enough.
[00:46:36] Then you can take in a lot more information. So instead of that weekly stakeholder meeting where you're polling the sales or post-sales teams, you can ingest calls and identify keywords and immediately funnel those back into your messaging and copywriting way faster than, you know, taking notes and, and talking to individual people.
[00:47:01] Um, and so, you know, and then also. You know, when I think of the time spent researching or learning, I think there's value in doing it yourself, but I, you know, there's so much that you can do in terms of research and just getting data. which is always a challenge of, oh, we gotta go into the data visualizer and stuff.
[00:47:21] I think it really equips product marketers today to kind of be the orchestrator of the engine because you're, the amount of times you're having individual meetings, you can consolidate those and get those same outputs, um, in way less time and, and a lot, lot faster. So funneling it right back into the, into the fly, growth fire wheel is a key aspect of that.
[00:47:43] Elle: Yeah. Okay. Such a great tip. And I think these days, I mean, I'm hearing pmms who are building entire, know, agents, for lack of a better word, or for embracing the buzzwords now, you know, building an entire agent to. [00:48:00] Just, you know, so to do some of that segmentation analysis, leveraging call recordings, and and I agree with you, I do think it's worthwhile for pmms to do some of that research and investigation themselves, just to increase your own confidence, right?
[00:48:17] So you know what you're talking about. So you'll feel, you know, a bigger connection to this project that you're driving. If everything's too AI generated, then it just, you, I think it's more of like a personal, it kind of influences your personal connection to what you're working on. And then sometimes that can influence the output.
[00:48:35] Um, so I think having a stronger connection to your work is, is important. Um, so that makes a lot of sense. Okay. Last question for you on this topic. Keith, if you had one piece of advice for a product marketer who is out there trying to increase adoption, maybe it's like switching their customers from one product to another.
[00:48:59] maybe it's from switching from a competitor to theirs, but they're just are trying to drive adoption for their product. What's one piece of advice that you have for that PMM?
[00:49:08] Keith: I'm gonna give you, uh, one super tactical and one more conceptual. And
[00:49:14] Elle: I love it.
[00:49:15] Keith: the super tactical one that we didn't get into earlier is close the loop of value with your customers. And so once they've adopted something that doesn't, that's not the end of the goal. It might be for what your objective was. But it really, what we, I found to be very valuable is then reinforcing that the thing that that customer just adopted is adding and delivering the value that you promised in the product marketing and, and messaging.
[00:49:47] And so by closing that loop, you are reinforcing, um, the value and, and creating an opportunity where they'll say, all right, I am. This one worked. I'm more inclined to listen to the next [00:50:00] time they tell me to adopt something, but it also can, it fuels social proof and case studies and results, but I think it's too often we forget to close the loop with customers and move on to the next launch or adoption and, and there's so much goodwill and value of closing that last loop and, and making sure the customer realizes.
[00:50:20] Value. Value, and they're aware that they are receiving the value because that's end all. Be all of it all.
[00:50:26] Elle: And it just validates their trust in you. Right? And it helps to bolster that trust and it helps your relationship. And so I love that tip. I think that's so helpful. Okay. You said you had one more for
[00:50:38] Keith: Yeah. And then the str, the conceptual one is just kind of know your product, know your customers, and then go to work. The everything in the middle of marketing and product marketing, it's messy and there's different goals and things you need to do, but I think it's, if you come back to those two things.
[00:50:56] That's ultimately what matters, like marketing and product marketing particularly is the matchmaking element between products and customer value. And so making sure that you're grounded and have both feet firmly planted in both of those, I think is a, is served me really well, regardless of the product or the industry.
[00:51:17] And so that would be, you know, never lose sight of. Either of those sides too much because the act of doing what we do is matchmaking between those.
[00:51:27] Elle: I love that and I, that's something that I constantly advise, uh, junior pmms on, um, especially when it comes to like AI and stuff, right? Is to don't jump into an obsessing over the next shiny AI tool or don't outsource the opportunity to know your customer and to know your product, and to know your market because the better that.
[00:51:52] You, the more familiar that you are with your customer and your product and your market, the more that it will give you [00:52:00] ideas and give you confirmation and confidence and validation on all the strategies that you're putting in place and the stories and the tactics that you're using in driving. So I could not agree more.
[00:52:10] I think that's such a strong tip. Uh, thank you so much, Keith. This was such a good story, such a good case study. Um, I can't, I'm excited. I wanna go drive my own. Product adoption and put your playbook, um, to the test. I'm sure it'll, uh, bring me some, some good fortune.
[00:52:28] Keith: Thanks al was a lot of fun.
[00:52:30] Elle: Yeah. All right. So now I wanna transition to the next segment of our show, the messaging critique.
[00:52:37] This is where we as product marketing experts get to analyze real world marketing. Um, and the fun part is, Keith, as my guest, you get to pick the company that we will look at today. Um, so let me set some quick ground rules. Uh, you're gonna pick a company that either you are familiar with the. Target audience or you are part of the target audience, wouldn't it be fair to critique messaging on a company that we don't know anything about their customers?
[00:53:01] Um, and then you're gonna tell me, we're gonna talk about what their messaging is and who they're, who they're talking to, and something you that stood out really well about the, about the messaging. Something you wish the pm m would've considered differently. And then we'll brainstorm a little bit around.
[00:53:16] How that PMM could take it to the next level. Um, so without further ado, reveal the company that we will be, uh, looking at today.
[00:53:26] Keith: Thanks. I'm excited to take part in this. I really enjoy, uh, the ones you do. So for our episode, I chose Wealthfront.
[00:53:34] Elle: I love it. So for those of you who wanna follow along, wealthfront.com, it's just as you would think, it's spelled W-E-A-L-T-H-F-R-O-N t.com. Okay, so I just went to the website. Um, what, give me a quick overview on how their mess, how they represent themselves from a messaging standpoint, at least, you know, based on their [00:54:00] website.
[00:54:00] I love it. So for those of you who wanna follow along, wealthfront.com, it's just as you would think, it's spelled W-E-A-L-T-H-F-R-O-N t.com. Okay, so I just went to the website. Um, what, give me a quick overview on how their mess, how they represent themselves from a messaging standpoint, at least, you know, based on their website.
[00:54:26] Keith: you know, their target audience would be. millennials and, and kind of younger investors. Uh, I'm, I sit squarely within their target audience.
[00:54:34] Um, and, and so it's millennials, young professionals, and people who, um, are kind of maybe earlier in their journey. They don't have an advisor. They don't have, uh, any of the kind of more sophisticated financial. Infrastructure. And so I've been a customer for over 10 years now. And so
[00:54:52] Elle: Wow.
[00:54:52] Keith: uh, I, I enjoy, yeah, I enjoy their product, I love their marketing, and it's been cool to see, uh, how they're, it's evolved over the lifecycle and in my lifecycle of, you know, fresh outta college to.
[00:55:07] You know, advancing in your career and how they show up in different aspects. So it's a, a big fan of it and it's, you know, uh, but I guess last thing about them is they target like retail investors and so they're a consumer oriented like a B2B or B2C, um, financial, uh.
[00:55:27] Elle: I love that. Um, and great that you've been exposed to their product for so long. 'cause then you can speak even more to, you know, how much the messaging is resonating and how it's changed. So, on their homepage, they're, they've got, you know, it's basically an immediate. Offer. It says, earn up to 4.2% a PY or your cash earns, uh, at base 3.3 a PY and higher.
[00:55:56] So talk us through what that means. Like what are they [00:56:00] trying to say here and why aren't they just jumping straight into, you know, the, the, the traditional, this is who we are, type of, uh, strategy for storytelling.
[00:56:12] Keith: Yeah, this is uh, um, I picked this one 'cause it is jarring, that tip. It's not what you expect when you land on a homepage to
[00:56:20] Elle: It felt, I almost thought that, like I click, I thought that I clicked on like a sponsored, a sponsored link, not their actual website.
[00:56:28] Keith: Yeah. No, it, it's, it's interesting and I think this is, uh, partially like a consumer finance, like the acquisition is a key aspect, but I like this. I selected this option because I like that they led, they don't shy away from leading with their offer and having, this was what attracted me and made me become a Wealthfront customer a decade ago.
[00:56:51] Their primary value proposition has always been. We provide more competitive interest rates than any most bank, like whatever the maximum is from the Fed, will be offering that. And they do a really good job of reinforcing that for customers too. And so, um, every time something changes. Uh, like, oh, the interest rates change.
[00:57:16] They'll send an email and say, Hey, it went down. 'cause it's required, but you're still getting the best in it. And so this is their core value proposition, and they're not trying to become or position themselves as anything other than like, this is what we do. And then the rest will follow of how do they, what else do they do besides this kind of core value?
[00:57:36] Elle: Got it. Got it. So they're, they're, uh, getting that foot in the door based on the core value, and then over time they're earning your trust and they're able to get, I mean, it seems like they're able to get, um, a bit more of your wallet share by. You know, delivering your value, delivering you value. Um, okay, so walk me through like, what did the PMM m do really well, and then [00:58:00] what do you wish the PMM would've considered differently
[00:58:02] Keith: Yeah. And so below the offer one, like as we scroll down the page, then the H one goes into turn your savings into wealth. And so what I liked about that is it's a very clear from two it's savings and wealth. And wealth obviously kind of echoes their brand name and then they this more traditional kind of marketing product, marketing page.
[00:58:27] They then frame the platform and persona flexibility. So they appeal to, do you want, are you a DIY investor or do you want a done for you solution
[00:58:38] Elle: Ah,
[00:58:39] Keith: we've got both of those ways. So
[00:58:42] Elle: I see. Yes, totally.
[00:58:43] Keith: core value, then this, then the H two, they have, uh, make the most of your money wherever you're at. So this is their core value proposition that they then orient on three different, uh, specific use cases.
[00:58:59] And so saving, uh, couples, managing finances, uh, different, you know, how how does this show up in the life for their various personas? And then they close with the tagline. And so sophisticated investing made simple. Is kind of the core positioning that, that they reinforce through everything in the product experience to the content and their brand.
[00:59:24] It's about simplifying finances, automating it, and making it work for you. And so I like how it just all comes together
[00:59:32] Elle: it's the mic drop at the end. Yeah. It's really, I like the storytelling. I like how it unfolds throughout the scroll. Um, and it's not what I was expecting either, so I like that. Okay. So what do you wish the PMM would've considered differently?
[00:59:49] Keith: Um, it's, you know, I think one would be to use more specificity. Um, and so like they could elevate, [01:00:00] again, it's a homepage and, and they have kind of their lead gen. Acquisition funnel leading. Um, but I think that they could elevate depending on who they're, they're going after, but some specific, uh, product features and not as only orienting towards like, outcome and, and use case like, oh, we make more money.
[01:00:19] Great. I think there's an opportunity where they could highlight like, Hey, we automate your goals and you can create a saving and investing waterfall. Um, or the other one would be maybe highlighting specific. Product keywords. And so things like an IRA or a checking account may be clearer to call it out specifically for people who aren't as financially savvy or aren't able to kind of draw out like, oh, they do offer IRAs, or, oh, this is about checking accounts.
[01:00:50] Um, but I think, you know, at the level we're talking on the homepage and not drilling into any of their solution areas, it's a fairly good balance. But that, those would be a couple things.
[01:01:00] Elle: Got it. Okay. So if you were their, we'll say PMM coach, how would you advise them to like consider taking this to the next level?
[01:01:10] Keith: Yeah, I think I would, um, bring their core positioning into that first section, and so I, it would be what we loved at the end of like, sim sophisticated investing made simple. I would like to see that simplified. Also at the very top in the H one, along with the goals, uh, and benefits based message.
[01:01:32] And so it's kind of like, it's not just the closing A CTA, but there's a bookend of reinforcing it from the beginning through the end. Simplified investing in money management is the through line that kind of connects each section individually.
[01:01:47] Elle: Yeah, I hear you. I, I agree. 'cause I think that would help me too, if I were, you know, landing on this, um, on the page the first time, and that way I didn't immediately think that it [01:02:00] was, you know, a sponsored link that I clicked on. I'm like, no, no, I want their homepage. Oh, this is their homepage. Okay. Uh, that would kind of help clarify some of that for, I mean, maybe I only have that because I'm a marketer, so I, I recognize more of the sponsored stuff.
[01:02:15] So, but in any case, uh, great tips and well done, well front pmms. This is really good storytelling and now I'm intrigued. I will, as a millennial, I'll, I will look in to the product as you know, as something I may use.
[01:02:33] Keith: Save, save yourself. I'll give you a referral link. I, I get, we get benefits. They, they incentivize that. So we'll, we'll follow up out offline.
[01:02:41] Elle: should we put your referral link in the show notes?
[01:02:45] Keith: Uh, maybe. No,
[01:02:48] Elle: I wouldn't, I wouldn't mind it if, if, if folks are learning about it through you. It's, it's all good. All the same to me.
[01:02:54] Keith: Um, it's, you know, I think one would be to use more specificity. Um, and so like they could elevate, again, it's a homepage and, and they have kind of their lead gen. Acquisition funnel leading. Um, but I think that they could elevate depending on who they're, they're going after, but some specific, uh, product features and not as only orienting towards like, outcome and, and use case like, oh, we make more money.
[01:03:24] Great. I think there's an opportunity where they could highlight like, Hey, we automate your goals and you can create a saving and investing waterfall. Um, or the other one would be maybe highlighting specific. Product keywords. And so things like an IRA or a checking account may be clearer to call it out specifically for people who aren't as financially savvy or aren't able to kind of draw out like, oh, they do offer IRAs, or, oh, this is about checking accounts.
[01:03:56] Um, but I think, you know, at the level we're talking on the [01:04:00] homepage and not drilling into any of their solution areas, it's a fairly good balance. But that, those would be a couple things.
[01:04:05] Elle: Absolutely.
[01:04:06] Keith: fun little example.
[01:04:08] Elle: I love it. I love it. Uh, well, Keith, one thing I like to make room for on the show is a moment of gratitude, because in product marketing we never get here alone. We're always learning from each other and holding each other up, standing on each other's shoulders, and we're all better for it. Um, so before we wrap up, I just wanna say genuine, thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to prepare for this conversation and to bring your expertise to the show.
[01:04:33] I'm sure it's gonna be so helpful for so many product marketers, so thank you so much. Really appreciate it.
[01:04:38] Keith: Yeah, no, thanks so much Al and it's, uh, a real treat and my gratitude extends to you as well as, uh, another product marketer I'm grateful to have learned from and, and all the content and resources that you put out for the PMM community through your podcast and the things you're doing.
[01:04:54] So it was a, a real treat to be here with you.
[01:04:58] Elle: Of course. Yay. I'm so glad to hear that. And on the spirit of gratitude, this is a good opportunity to give shout outs to all the marketers, pmms, peers, managers, and mentors that have been part of your career and really shaped, um, the awesome marketer that you are today. This is a great chance to give some, uh, some kudos.
[01:05:19] Keith: Yeah, thanks. It's, I have a lot because I. This was the crew that really taught me and showed me the ropes as I dove headfirst into product marketing, uh, as soon as I joined. So, first, Tom Morris, uh, Tom was my boss for several years on the PMM team at Classy, and actually he was the person when he joined, I handed off Classy, paid to him.
[01:05:41] And so he really showed me the financial and analytical side of PMM. Um, he really digging into things like basis points and so I learned a lot about, um, that from him. Second would be Katie Gand. Katie is awesome and was the OG PMM when I joined. [01:06:00] And so if there was a template or a doc or a product hearing playbook, Katie Stingers were all over.
[01:06:06] And um, so it was really cool to see, uh, and learning. What good PMM looks like before I even move formally to that team. Then lastly, just a trio of, uh, Colin Majak, Megan Ferris and Elaine Ner. They were the three pmms for three distinct product areas when I was at Classy and GoFundMe Pro, and they kept me extremely busy, uh, sequencing and orchestrating the go to market for a steady stream of launches.
[01:06:37] Sometimes three all at the same time. Um, but it was really cool to see how they each owned their individual areas and, and approach marketing, product marketing in different ways. And so, uh, those would be my shout outs to the, to the people that really helped shape, um, and, and help me, uh, learn more, learn the ropes as I was there.
[01:06:55] Elle: I love that and I even recognize a few of those names, so it'll be great. I'll have to go and, um, make sure that they hear this episode and then
[01:07:04] Keith: Uh, I'll be, I'll be sharing.
[01:07:06] Elle: yeah, maybe also tap on their shoulders, shoulders to be guests on the show sometime.
[01:07:10] Keith: Yeah, sure. I will. I'll, I'll send you my referral link.
[01:07:15] Elle: There we go. Rolls all around. Okay, I promise. This is my real last question for you. Where is the best to access your um, expertise? Should listeners just reach out to you on LinkedIn?
[01:07:26] Keith: Yep. Follow me on LinkedIn. Uh, my URL is my name, so, uh, sorry to the other Keith Blaik out there. I have Keith Dash blaik, um, and I'm on there talking product marketing, marketing theory, sharing pictures of my whiteboards and, uh, occasionally making some jokes and stuff. So, happy to connect and, and, uh, see, see if you wanna reach out.
[01:07:47] Elle: Again, thank you so much, Keith. This was such a great story, such a great playbook. Um, and hey, PMM listeners, if you really liked this episode, please share it with a PMM friend. [01:08:00] I'd be so grateful if you would leave a review. It helps tremendously with our reach. And thank you so much for coming on this adventure with us today.
[01:08:07] I hope this episode leaves you with inspiration to take in the next step of your own journey.
