Go Viral with Customers Like a Granola PMM
If you spent any time on Twitter or LinkedIn in December 2025, you probably saw exactly what we’re about to talk about. Feeds were full of year-in-review posts, screenshots, swipe cards, and funny little stats about how people worked, what they shipped, and what they obsessed over all year. You know the format. Spotify Wrapped made it famous. Plenty of brands have tried to copy it since. Some pulled it off. Some really, really didn’t.
Granola was one of the ones that got it right. Their “Crunched” campaign was scrappy, AI-powered, deeply shareable, and seemed to spread across tech workers on Twitter and LinkedIn overnight. It generated millions of organic impressions and changed how people talked about the product in the process. In this episode, I sat down with Jack Cully, part of the team behind Granola, the AI meeting notes tool people genuinely love using. He walked us through how they built Granola Crunched, and why it worked so well.
Now a founding marketer at a startup, Jack is representing the Granola team here as an honorary product marketer because this campaign is such a strong example of using customer insight and product capability in a genuinely clever way. Before Granola, Jack was one of the earliest marketers at Monzo, the app-based bank that helped redefine modern FinTech branding in the UK. He has also led a brand refresh at every company he’s worked at, which tells you he’s not exactly afraid of rethinking the story from the ground up.
Start With a Product People Already Feel Something About
Granola had one big advantage going into this campaign. The product already solved a real, relatable problem. It helped people turn messy meeting notes into organised summaries without forcing them to spend the whole meeting typing like their life depended on it.
That matters because viral campaigns work better when they amplify something users already value. Granola did not need to invent a fake emotional hook. The product already sat close to people’s daily work, which meant the campaign could build on real behavior, real habits, and real moments people recognized in themselves.
Why “Crunched” Worked
Jack walked through how the team built “Granola Crunched” as a year-in-review style experience. The idea was not to copy Spotify Wrapped for the sake of it. It was to take a familiar format and use Granola’s meeting data in a way that felt specific to the product and genuinely fun for users.
The campaign surfaced things like people’s most-used phrases, favorite collaborators, and patterns in how they worked. It was funny, a little exposing in the best way, and highly shareable. The reason it landed is that it gave users a version of themselves they wanted to react to. That is a much stronger engine for sharing than a brand simply asking for attention.
Personal, Useful, and Still Privacy-First
One of the smartest parts of the campaign was that it felt personal without crossing the line into creepy. That balance is hard. Jack talked about how carefully the team thought about privacy while still making the output feel tailored and emotionally resonant.
That is the sweet spot. If a campaign uses customer data, it has to feel like a gift, not surveillance. Granola managed to make the experience feel playful and useful, which is exactly why people leaned in instead of backing away.
Launch Timing and Social Momentum Matter
Granola also did the operational side well. The campaign launched on a Tuesday at 8:00 AM UK time, which gave it room to build momentum in one market before naturally rolling into another. That kind of timing sounds small, but it matters when you are trying to create a wave instead of a blip.
Jack also took personal ownership of social engagement during the launch. That meant replies felt human, fast, and in tune with the moment. When a campaign starts moving, that responsiveness helps turn interest into energy.
The Bigger Win Was Brand Perception
“Crunched” did more than generate shares. It changed how people thought about Granola. The campaign reportedly drove a 25 percent share rate, helped with new user acquisition, and pushed the brand beyond “useful meeting notes tool” into something more emotionally sticky.
That shift matters. The strongest campaigns do not just create attention, but deepen the relationship between the user and the product. Granola became not just a tool people used, but a brand that seemed to understand how they worked.
Messaging Critique: Lovable
We closed the episode with a messaging critique of Lovable and their campaign line, “Some ideas are too loud to ignore.” It is a strong line. Creative, emotionally charged, and clearly aimed at makers and builders who feel a constant pull to bring ideas to life.
Jack liked the ambition and the out-of-home execution, but also pointed to an opportunity. If the campaign is about ideas being too loud to ignore, there is room to bring that concept into the real world in a bigger, more tangible way. Something street-level, interactive, or unexpected could push the idea even further and make the message feel less like a line and more like an experience.
What Granola got right was not just the format. It was the thinking underneath it. They understood what users already valued, found a way to reflect that back in a funny and highly shareable format, and executed it with enough care that it felt personal rather than performative.
That is the real lesson from Jack’s playbook. Strong campaigns do not come from chasing trends for the sake of it. They come from understanding your product deeply, knowing what your customers will actually see themselves in, and building something that feels both useful and worth talking about. That is how you create a campaign people do not just notice, but want to share.
LINKS:
Messaging Critique: https://lovable.dev/
Connect with Jack:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jackcully
Connect with Elle:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elle3izabeth/
-
[00:00:41] Elle: If you spent any time on Twitter or LinkedIn in December of last year, that's 2025, you've probably seen what we're about to talk about. Everyone posting their year review stats or could look like screenshots, maybe swipe cards on LinkedIn. I'm talking about those funny little insights about how people work and what they listen to, what products they shipped, what they obsessed over for the year.
[00:01:05] Yes. I think you know what I'm talking about, the popular wrapped campaigns. Now, Spotify wrapped made this format famous, but some of those rap style campaigns completely flop when brands tried to copy them. You guys remember that year in review from LinkedIn? Yikes. Well, today we're talking about a company that absolutely nailed the rap style campaign a scrappy, AI powered, deeply shareable experience that generated millions of organic impressions and changed how people talk about their product overnight.
[00:01:38] I am so excited to welcome Jack Cully to the show. You guys, Jack is part of the team at granola, the ai. Meeting notes tool that people genuinely love using, and today he's going to walk us through how they created granola crunched. That's their version of a yearend review campaign that spread across tech workers on [00:02:00] Twitter and LinkedIn like wildfire. Although he's a founding marketer at a startup and owns all of marketing today, he's representing the granola team as an honorary product marketer for their strategic use of customer insights and product capabilities in this incredibly clever campaign. It is no surprise to me that Jack and the team delivered such a successful campaign.
[00:02:22] Let me tell you guys why. Jack was one of the earliest marketers at Monzo, the wildly popular, app-based bank in the UK that redefined modern FinTech branding, and he has led a brand refresh at every single company he has worked at, which tells you he's not afraid to rethink the story from the ground up.
[00:02:44] And if that weren't impressive enough, Jack has also run not just one, but two marathons. So clearly endurance is part of the package deal here. Jack, welcome to the show.
[00:02:56] Jack: Thanks for having me, Al. It's uh, it's great to be here and thanks for the very kind intro.
[00:03:00] Elle: Yes, I have been looking forward to this conversation for so long. I know I initially reached out to you because the campaign was so popular, I'm not gonna lie, I had a little FOMO because I was not a granola customer, so I did not get a granola crunched year in review. So,
[00:03:20] Jack: we'll have to get you this year for, uh, granola crunched.
[00:03:23] Elle: Exactly right. Okay, so let's quickly, get our listeners up to speed. For those of you who may not know what granola is, help us understand what is granola
[00:03:34] Jack: So granola is the AI notepad for people in back-to-back meetings. So really simple. It's a separate app that lives on your computer. Or on your phone. And, um, whilst you are in a meeting, you can take rough notes and then, uh, granola transcribes in the background. And then once the meeting is over, granola will take the rough notes you've made and [00:04:00] enhance them and make them into, you know, readable summaries so you can kind of stay focused on the conversation you're having and not worry about making sure that every detail.
[00:04:10] Was captured. so yeah, we're, uh, based out here in London. team, uh, is growing. There's about 50 of us and we keep, keep growing and, uh, yeah, I guess the, the big thing for us at the moment is kind of growing granola from a notes app to an app that, makes the most of the context that you get from within your meetings.
[00:04:30] So we just launched something called MCP, which is basically the a way to. let granola talk to Chacha, pt Claude, and all your other AI apps. So yeah, lots of
[00:04:40] Elle: Whoa. That is so cool. Oh my gosh, I'm so excited for this. I remember when I would do, this was a long time ago. This was before ai or maybe like right when AI like meeting summary started to come out several years ago. Um, or maybe just like recording transcripts. And I remember I, I'm very much like a hand note taker.
[00:05:03] It's just part of my processing and I remember I'd go back and like listen to the recordings to try to fill in things that I missed. So I love that. It just does that for me. Very cool. And pretty game changer with the, the new, um, MCP. Congrats on the MCP, right? That's what it's called,
[00:05:20] Jack: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. Yeah. It's, uh, yeah, it's pretty cool. People are, people are really loving it, so that's great.
[00:05:26] Elle: Ah, I love it. Okay, well, um, for today we're gonna dive into the first segment of this show. So the first segment is where we talk about the case study example, specifically on granola crunch in that campaign and how you guys pulled it off. So tell me a little bit more about what was going on at granola when you realized you needed some kind of campaign like this.
[00:05:48] Jack: yeah, we were really surprised at how, you know, how much people loved granola crunched when we put it out to the world. But, um, it all basically started as um, maybe a few things. You know, there was a desire from on our side to [00:06:00] do something fun for our users to, be a bit more visible on, on social media.
[00:06:05] And, you know, we felt that the, you know, the product had. good word of mouth growth already. Lots of folks are already talking about us on Twitter. ai, Twitter, there's a lot of conversation about granola already, so that's great. and you know, every time we speak to users about granola, they absolutely love it.
[00:06:24] They swear by it. So we feel very lucky that they're, you know, we already had kind of fairly strong, product market fit the. Thing that we wanted to boost is actually people talking about granola, online more. because, basically we thought that we could juice that a little bit. So people are already talking about granola online a bunch.
[00:06:43] but, um, how could we find a way to get customers to talk about, granola more? now at the same time, you know, we've, we spend some time, brainstorming fund marketing ideas, and we kind of all just got kind of, you know, there's, there's this desire in every company isn't there for your product to go viral at some point.
[00:07:02] So, you
[00:07:03] know, we were just kind of talking through some of these, some, some ideas and, you know, it was, back in the summer where, We were brainstorming some ideas and someone, you know, talked about Spotify wrapped, which is, I guess for every marketer, it's every marketer's dream to do a version of Spotify wrapped.
[00:07:21] But, you know, over the last 10 years, they've become a bit, ubiquitous, shall we say. And they're very, you know, I think lots of people do them. And you mentioned LinkedIn at the beginning. Not many of them are done. Very well, and they just become more noise rather than like, genuine user value. So we were kind of, you know, thinking about how we might be able to do it.
[00:07:45] And, you know, the one thing we didn't want to do is just do something that was, was gimmicky. that said granola knows a lot about you. It's surprising how much, because you say a lot in meetings that reveal a [00:08:00] lot about you, the phrases that you use in meetings, the people that you spend time with in meetings.
[00:08:07] the decisions you make, the, uh, projects that you advance and, uh, you know, the achievements that you celebrate. These all happen in conversations with your colleagues. And so, you know, we thought there was an opportunity here to use that context in some way. and actually it not feel like a gimmick in the way that, some of the recaps do today. So yeah, we, we were in our summer kind of, we were going through things in the summer. We were actually working with some, um, interns. Uh, shout out to Luke and Malika, who with us over the summer, incredible engineering interns. They were super, super smart people and, um, they worked on a bunch of things whilst they were here, but.
[00:08:54] for their last week, which also was a week that the whole team was, at the company Villa in Majorca, which, uh, we call Casa Granola. we thought we'd give them a fun. project to work on. And so we thought, well, why don't you work on, granola wrapped as we called it at the time.
[00:09:12] And so they built a very basic version based on, a, technology that we have called recipes. It's a feature that basically lets you save custom prompts. And, um, the results were really surprising. Like they, even with a very basic prompt behind it, we were all kind of a bit blown away by the things that granola could say about us and what we had done.
[00:09:33] And so. after seeing the prototype of it, I just thought we have to do this. So, you know, they finished, um, their internship with us and went back to university mid-September, which is around the time that we were doing, Q4 planning and. I just put launch granola wrapped into our Q4 plans, and I just wrote that just, just the words launch, granola wrapped.
[00:09:57] And I did that because I wanted [00:10:00] us to do it because I knew how cool it would be just based, based on the team's reactions. So I kind of forced ourselves to think about how we might do it. and that's, yeah, I guess that's, that's where we ended up by kind of pursuing it as a project, I guess.
[00:10:14] Elle: Yeah. And then you just made it happen. So, um, I love this story and I know you mentioned at the beginning the goal in mind was around getting people to talk more about granola. You had this initial like word of mouth conversation, but it sounds like a lot of that initial word of mouth. Probably happened more, I dunno, behind closed doors.
[00:10:41] You know, you didn't necessarily have people creating an organic post on LinkedIn saying, Hey, I use granola. It's great. Like, you know, but this is obviously people started doing that, but, um, but just in wrapped up, no pun intended, in your,
[00:10:58] you know, insights that you guys,
[00:11:01] Jack: Yeah, a hundred percent. And you know, we did have some folks sharing, but I think, you know, we felt that the product was, so people do really love using granola. Like you should see our feedback forms, which is full of. Praise, which I, you know, feel very genuine, lucky to be here. And I just thought we can get more people to talk about it.
[00:11:18] So we thought, how do we do that?
[00:11:20] Elle: Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Okay. And going back to something that you said about, when you were, you saw the initial results with a super basic. Basically prompt that the interns were able to put together, and that you were just blown away with it. You know what it reminded me of, and maybe this is still the actual output of the whole campaign and I think is a testament to why being so customer centric and specifically using the insights that you had available to you so successful.
[00:11:52] Tapping a little bit into human psychology, it's kind of like why people like reading about their personalities. Or their [00:12:00] personality, you know, they liked people like taking personality tests. Oh, what's my personality type? You know, like, so it's a little, it has a little bit of that flavor to it. so it's just very interesting. I don't think that that wasn't necessarily intentional for you. It's just something that you guys discovered as you started to, you know, run those, internal, you know, I guess not experiment necessarily, but the, you know, the test internally with the interns and kinda the rest of the company for that summer end project.
[00:12:28] Jack: Yeah. Yeah. No, for sure, for sure. Yeah. I mean, that was a big learning for us. And you know, maybe we'll talk about this, uh, in more depth in a bit, but a big learning for us was, people really love to read and read about themselves, and then they like to talk about themselves, but they don't like doing it directly.
[00:12:47] So like, people like saying how great they are. But they don't like to say that they're great from their own voice. So if granola can do it for them, great. Uh, and that's kind of, yeah, that was a big thing we learned.
[00:12:59] Elle: Totally. Right, right. I think in our prep call ahead of this recording, I think you said something like, what's an acceptable way for, for, you know, a user or a listener or, you know, people out in the world might be thinking, what's an acceptable way for me to brag about myself without bragging about myself?
[00:13:18] Like, you know, so it kind of creates that.
[00:13:22] so,
[00:13:23] Well I was gonna ask you about the insights that you decided to use and how you found the insights. I guess like you mentioned before, that by nature of the product that Chronologist knows a lot about you and has that context. how did you decide which insights to include?
[00:13:42] Jack: So great question. I think, well, we set ourselves a bunch of criteria, and I think first and foremost they needed everything that we showed, folks needed to feel. They'd been seen. So they needed to feel really, oh my God, like granola really kind of gets [00:14:00] me, it should reveal something quite meaningful.
[00:14:03] and it should be something that you want to share. So, hear something that you want to share and you maybe think, okay, post it on. LinkedIn or on on X or somewhere else, uh, like a social media platform. But we kind of thought about it in maybe three different ways. We, we, we thought about it in terms of posting publicly.
[00:14:22] So posting something, on LinkedIn or X like, and that kind of a thing would maybe be, you know, an achievement that you did at work. Something that you, felt really. Proud of doing, or something that sold your services. So we had a lot of, uh, people who were consultants basically using their granola crunched as a bit of a customer testimonial ad for their own business, which was really
[00:14:48] interesting.
[00:14:48] so that was definitely, useful because it's, it's valuable for the user and for, for for granola. Right. The second thing that we, the second like vector of sharing that we're thinking about is Slack or Teams or email, probably not email, but certainly Slack and teams. these are the kind of like company in jokes that you might have.
[00:15:06] So, you know, someone's always falling asleep on a call or, um, someone always uses the same buzzwords. so we kind of optimized for that in terms of, yeah, so we had like, uh, catchphrases and we also had your work bestie. I can't remember what we called it, but it was like, you are
[00:15:23] partnering crime or something. And then the third vector was maybe sharing with friends. Um, so something that you say at work that may be transferrable outside of work, you know, what would you send someone on WhatsApp? so yeah, we, we, we saw success on the first, on the first two. Like a lot of people did share. very publicly on LinkedIn or X and then there was a lot of kind of, from what we can see, obviously we don't know for sure, but, anecdotally we heard that lots of people were sharing on Slack, and we also kind of saw that, you know, we had analytics on the share button.
[00:15:52] We saw lots of people were pressing share and not necessarily seeing that same percentage show up on, uh, like LinkedIn or X. So you can deduct that. There was a lot of [00:16:00] sharing on, on Slack as well. So, so yeah, that's kind of how we thought about it. Uh, happy to go into more detail about how we, how we
[00:16:06] made that work, but, uh, yeah.
[00:16:07] Elle: Right, right. And part of what works so well with the campaign, and I guess the output of the campaign is that it was funny and fun and witty and entertaining and I think, and that was intentional as you mentioned. So I guess like how did you make it funny?
[00:16:27] Jack: Um, so, it's a very difficult thing to do well, especially with ai. It is very hard to make AI funny, and I can, I can claim no credit really for making, for making granola crunched funny. we spent a lot of time thinking about, the tone and what kinds of things we want to say about granola, about users, in the experience and, you know, we, we always wanted it to be accurate, first and foremost.
[00:17:02] We wanted it to kind of be respectful. We didn't, you know, a lot of. Certainly Spotify and some others have, have kind of gone down a roasting route. and we tried that. We tried to roast people and it just felt super mean. Honestly, it, it did
[00:17:16] not work.
[00:17:17] Elle: Yeah. You're like, ads doesn't make me feel good.
[00:17:21] Jack: Right, a hundred percent. And like I can kind of see how like roasting definitely works on Spotify because you can be like, ha ha, you listen to Taylor Swift, let me roast you.
[00:17:30] But there's something different about when it comes to your conversations. So yeah, we, we basically set, talked about it, we kind of set ourselves, a bunch of principles that kind of were aligning on like. How do we make this super shareable and interesting, but also we don't cross a line where we kind of upset and offend people.
[00:17:50] And way we mainly did that honestly, was by kind of making an example, showing it to people inside the company and then [00:18:00] getting their reaction and just kind of seeing how they felt about it. And so our chief of staff here, Joe, Is behind all of our kind of AI prompting. And so she spent countless hours, I, I would say over 24 hours worth just pure, tweaking the prompts to make it work and do it properly.
[00:18:23] Like the most attention that we spent on this whole project was tweaking the AI and the kind of prompting behind it to make sure that it felt. Really sharp, but also empathetic and, uh, pulled the right detail. Didn't make any assumptions about you, didn't offend, you didn't say anything that was confidential because a lot of your meeting context is confidential.
[00:18:50] You think about, you know, we, we spent a lot of time thinking about, people who work in, The people teams or HR or recruiting, you know, some, sometimes you're having very difficult conversations and the
[00:19:01] last thing you want is for that to come up in this, in
[00:19:05] Elle: Absolutely. Or if you're, yeah, like revealing product details or product roadmap information. There's
[00:19:13] all kinds of things, right?
[00:19:15] Jack: Yeah. So, so we spent a lot of time thinking about those use cases and. Yeah, slowly but surely we worked our way into a prompt that felt like it was giving good and funny results, and it felt safe enough to start scaling out to more people. But I, as I say, I can take no credit for that.
[00:19:31] That was all Joe who did an incredible
[00:19:33] Elle: Yeah, shout out Joe. That's awesome. And what I love that, you know, and this is, uh, credit, you know, entirely to Joe and then, but then also the rest of the team to sit down and think through what those principles are and you really put. Yourselves, kind of in the customer's shoes to think through what, how would we make this like, like what is required to make this shareable, you know, [00:20:00] something that they're proud of.
[00:20:01] Basically, it has to be something that they're proud to put their name on. everyone likes to, everyone likes to be funny, you know,
[00:20:07] Jack: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of like, yeah, were we. The way we thought about it really was, is this something that says something about someone like, yes, no. And if yes, does it say enough about that person for them to share it with someone else or feel really warm about granola?
[00:20:30] And if it didn't hit that bar, then it was out because
[00:20:35] everything had to feel. Like you'd been really seen by, and you know, the reason we did, we had, I can't remember the exact number of, kind of screens we had in it, but the reason we did eight or nine in the end is because everyone's different. And as we were testing it with folks, some people really resonated with, their partner in crime, whereas other people really resonated with their catchphrase and other people really resonated with.
[00:21:03] Their achievements. And so we wanted everyone to feel warm about the whole thing, but different people are minded to share different things. And if we just, there was a, there was one version where we basically were just gonna go with one or two slides and that's it. But what we found is that actually there was no clear winner on the slides of which people would share.
[00:21:23] So we shipped them all and made, and hopefully, you know, it felt like an appropriate length. So, yeah.
[00:21:29] Elle: Oh, that's awesome. I love how you kind of just went with your gut a little bit on that.
[00:21:34] Jack: Oh yeah.
[00:21:35] Elle: Which intuition is sometimes part of the game, you know, just leaning into intuition. okay, let's talk about the launch. How did you actually put this into the world and make sure that it kept up with the fire, you know, the
[00:21:49] wildfire spread.
[00:21:51] Jack: Well, yeah, so we, we spent in total, probably myself and James, who's a design engineer on our team. [00:22:00] We probably end to end spent six weeks on this project. we started roping folks in at weeks two to three. Uh, and it ended up with, five of us, I think. kind of looking to ship the experience.
[00:22:11] You know, we did lots of like readiness checks from like an engineering and platform point of view, uh, to make sure that we were super, super ready, uh, in kind of all scenarios. you know, I was expecting folks to resonate with it, but I really didn't expect what was about to come. So, on the Monday, we launched on a Tuesday, on Monday night, we did all our final checks.
[00:22:34] We went through. The experience. We had one last minute change to the beginning of the experience, which was actually, just to reiterate how private this data is. Like no one at granola can see it. No one, inside your company can see it. The only time this data gets shared is if you, um. Choose to share it.
[00:22:55] So we didn't have that in there and we thought it was important to put it in to kind of set the scene. Um, so we made that change on a Monday evening, uh, before we went out on Tuesday.
[00:23:04] And then, yeah, Monday, uh, Tuesday morning, About 8:00 AM UK time, we'd basically made the calculate. So most of our customers are based in the us. and generally speaking, when we launch something, we launch, around 9:00 AM uh, Pacific Time. Uh, the reason we do that is because that's when folks in San Francisco, our biggest market, uh, are waking up but we made the calculation this time that actually we have enough users in the UK to see it.
[00:23:33] Then start talking about it. Then New York, wake up at 3:00 PM and by the time New York wake up, hopefully there's a critical mass of people talking about it online. And that transfers to New York and then again to San Francisco. Turns out that that was a good decision because that's exactly what happened.
[00:23:53] So we set the product live at 8:00 AM We put a banner inside the product, [00:24:00] so. In granola, we have like your upcoming meetings at the top we have your, uh, meetings that you've taken notes for at the bottom, and then we put a bar in the middle that just said your 2025 crunched. And then very much just like tap to see what this is all about.
[00:24:16] we sent an email which slowly, I mean, you know how long it takes for emails to roll out. It probably took about six to eight hours for the email to send. Uh, which again was perfect for folks waking up in San Francisco. So, we sent it out and then, we had planned to tweet about it and post about it on LinkedIn and do a, kind of, do our socials.
[00:24:36] We'd planned to do that about 1:00 PM UK time, which was a couple of hours before folks in the US wake up. But we found, we saw that we were getting so much traction from the uk, like just really people just absolutely going for like tweeting us and um, you know, posting about us on LinkedIn that we decided to go early with our announcement post.
[00:24:58] So we went probably, I can't remember exactly, maybe 10, a 10:00 AM UK time. There was just so much going on. so yeah, it was crazy. Uh, and then. I kind of, you know, all the conventional wisdom for social says that if you are mentioned on something that you want other people to see, you should reply to it and engage with it.
[00:25:20] So I decided that for crunched, I was gonna reply to every single post about crunched, whether granola was tagged or not. So anyone posting about crunched, I would just reply to, uh. So from 8:00 AM through to, think it was eight or 9:00 PM I was replying to posts and I just was co It was all day, all day.
[00:25:48] Elle: Wow.
[00:25:49] Jack: I was replying to every single one, just trying to be a bit funny about what they'd said. I don't know, I, it was, it was a bit of a wild day and I feel very delirious even thinking about it. But [00:26:00] I
[00:26:00] Elle: But you wanted that like organic engagement that was unique to every post, not, you know, not just like copying the same thing and putting it on the same post, because that just feels so inauthentic, which is the opposite experience of what you wanted the campaign to be.
[00:26:15] Jack: Exactly. Exactly. And I wanted people to feel that granola had a personality. I wanted people to, you know, I, folks who followed granola would hopefully see the fact that we were interacting. The person who posted would feel, um. There's always like a sense of like, okay, they've recognized me.
[00:26:33] And I think, yes, validated is the word.
[00:26:36] Elle: Mm-hmm.
[00:26:37] Jack: And then I think if you've posted something, you see others posting, well if you want to post something, you see others posting, you are more encouraged to. But then if you see the thing you are posting about post back to you. There's just like a human psychology thing where you're like, oh, I am gonna post 'cause everyone else is.
[00:26:54] Elle: right.
[00:26:55] right. Exactly.
[00:26:56] Yeah. I love that. Yeah. Wow. Your fingers must have been cramped up after that. I'm very impressed. I'm very impressed. I myself, like I, I, I was not a granola customer, and when I saw it popping up everywhere, I'm not gonna lie, I had some fomo. I was like, I don't have one. So I think it does, you know, it definitely.
[00:27:20] Works. Right. Um, so what can you share in terms of results? You know, your initial goal for all of this was to get people talking about granola in a socially acceptable way. so, and you've talked a lot about how you did that, which was so clever, but like, what were, can you share a little bit about actual business impact and you know, what that, what that did for you guys, um, in the success of the campaign?
[00:27:47] Jack: Yeah, I mean, for sure. So, um, I think just the fact that granola was visible on the internet and very, very visible on the internet for a few days, we've done a rebrand since, but it was a [00:28:00] shame 'cause if we'd had the rebrand, it would been great to have all the colors. but just the fact that the granola name was out there for a few days and we were kind of being talked about, a lot of people were saying some very kind things about us, like Spotify wrapped.
[00:28:13] The best thing since Spotify wraps, which is obviously very, very kind. just like the thing that that does to people's perception about the granola brand is, is invaluable and, positions us as like a real, necessity for, for businesses, right? Like, and I think that's important. So, you know, we had millions of organic impressions within the first few days.
[00:28:35] Of that campaign and there was a long tail. we still get people asking us today for their granola croach, which is, you know, wild.
[00:28:42] It's, it finished four months ago. So like, it's amazing that people are still asking for it. so yeah, millions of organic impressions, um, which was great.
[00:28:52] we saw very strong sharing rates, so we were, we could see the percentage of folks that were clicking the share button. you know, click through rates on a on something like this are, you know, typically in the low single digits. We were looking at something like 25% of people were sharing their,
[00:29:12] were sharing their
[00:29:13] Elle: that's really good. I think I think that's, yeah, those are some really strong metrics.
[00:29:18] Jack: It was kind of amazing to, to, to see. but yeah, I think, I think it did for some folks change how they felt about granola too. So, you know, we saw some really high acquisition for the kind of week or so after, after crunch, like the highest to date,
[00:29:38] um, which was great. That was great.
[00:29:40] So we achieved that goal. Something that we didn't anticipate, but I think did happen was people started to think about granola as more than meeting notes. Like as in granola is actually a place that understands you at work and, that context is really valuable and useful. I think that was a very good unintended consequence that I, [00:30:00] I personally didn't expect.
[00:30:01] So,
[00:30:02] yeah.
[00:30:03] Elle: Absolutely. So you, not only did you, you achieved the goal, people definitely talked about you as you pointed out, every marketer's dream to kind of have a marketing campaign go viral like that. but then to also have that happy, unintended outcome of the mind shift that customers and prospects had about your product is.
[00:30:25] It's a dream. It's a marketer's dream.
[00:30:28] Jack: Yeah,
[00:30:28] Elle: congrats on that. Just again, so clever, very. All perfectly executed. okay, so now I want to shift gears just a little bit and let's say that you're my coach and I am trying to pull off a, an engaging marketing campaign, and I wanna use customer insights and my product.
[00:30:52] You know, help me understand what the playbook looks like for this, and what would step one looks like. What's the, what's the first thing I need to go do if I'm trying to, to pull off a, not, not necessarily a wrapped campaign, but you know, using the approach of, you know, customer insights, product capabilities, and wanting to create some customer engagement.
[00:31:13] Jack: Yeah, for sure. So I, I think firstly for any kind of customer engagement campaign like this, you have to have a product that users love using. and so if that isn't the case. If that needs to be fixed first, I would say, because users won't, users are not gonna share something that they don't love using.
[00:31:34] even if the insight, you know, maybe you could do it if something, if there was like a really unhinged or ridiculous thing that they might share for different reasons, which would give you visibility, but not necessarily, kind of like a, a, a positive, Association. so look for things like people proactively saying that they use the product.
[00:31:54] We had kind of a baseline level of this on, uh, Twitter, X, and LinkedIn as well [00:32:00] beforehand. look at your retention numbers. Look at your daily active use. look for your customer conversations with customer support and see how. Sentiment is there. If there's like strong emotional language being used there, you should look.
[00:32:16] but really without a kind of genuine emotional connection with your brand, this doesn't work. So the reason this worked is because the team here have made an amazing product and, uh, as a result, I very luckily had permission to do a campaign with, with the team on top of that.
[00:32:31] Elle: Yeah, so step one, you have to have a to for a minimum viable campaign, you absolutely must have. Customers, current paying customers who just genuinely love the product. okay. As assume I have those conditions, what comes next? What's step two?
[00:32:51] Jack: So the next thing I think is. Having a think about how you can actually, execute internally. So, you're not gonna be able to do it on your own. You're gonna need a, a team. something like this required a lot of what you, I guess, called cross-functional collaboration. I mean, for us it was, engineering.
[00:33:13] On the back end and the front end, it was AI prompting, it was design, both from a product design point of view, but also from a kind of brand and marketing design point of view. so identify the people who can do all of the core functions of the
[00:33:34] thing you need to deliver. Um, and so, yeah, just described those for us.
[00:33:39] And if you don't have those, where are you gonna get 'em from? Like, could you work with someone, could you engage an agency or a freelancer to help you? noting that if you go externally, it might take a bit longer and so you'd need to give yourself a bit more time.
[00:33:54] Elle: Yep. Yep. So basically identify what are the jobs to be done and who's gonna do those jobs. Who, what are [00:34:00] the roles I need cross-functionally to make this super successful? okay, so I got my conditions. I, I know customers love my product. I figure out all the roles, you know, cross-functionally who are going to help me pull this thing off.
[00:34:14] I put the people in the place and, you know, in place of those roles. So what's next? What's step three?
[00:34:21] Jack: So I think next is kind of what can you use from your product that would be genuinely interesting or useful to users? So. Firstly, like think about, you know, what's the artifact inside your products that could be
[00:34:38] useful? Um, and really the whole time here, you need to be. I think what a lot of people do is they love something inside their product and they want more people to see the thing that they love.
[00:34:56] So they boost it or they put that forward for consideration at a stage like this. Whereas you need to flip that completely and put your customer's sunglasses on and look through those glasses and, uh, see the world with, with the, that tint. And, once you've got those sunglasses on to, I guess extend the metaphor, you know.
[00:35:23] Identify the signals that a user will think, oh, I see myself in that thing. So, you know, for us, we, catchphrase is a really good example of that where, you know, we have someone saying the same word more than five times, uh, in the space of two weeks, excluding things like, and the I.
[00:35:52] Um, that is a good, good candidate for, for this kind of a thing.
[00:35:57] Um, that said, [00:36:00] you need to build a system as you start thinking about these things. Uh, so as you start thinking about that context and how you might wanna, uh, present it back to users, you have to think about the privacy story. So, if anything is, uh, sensitive or private, or, um. You know, privileged even, need to make sure that only that user can see it and they know that you have put those protections in place.
[00:36:30] Um, so yeah, I hope that makes some kind of
[00:36:33] Elle: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yeah, absolutely. And can I just say, I love, I've never heard your specific metaphor for looking at things through the customer's perspective. I will be stealing the sunglasses metaphor. Don't worry. I will give you credit.
[00:36:49] Jack: I literally LI literally just came up with it. I literally just came up with it.
[00:36:54] Elle: It's the best thing I've ever heard. I love it. Um. Something else that you've, I think you've already said, but it's worth kind of repeating here, is that when you look at all of this, use customer data that you can, that, um, you wanna try to see what context is available and how you can use it for a campaign.
[00:37:13] And you talked about wanting, making sure that it's, you know, not proprietary, not private, not things that people don't want shared externally, but what you guys did with crunched. And I think what should be done in any kind of. Leveraging customer insights for an engaging campaign is to make it about the customer and the user, not the company they work for.
[00:37:33] If it's like, if it's like a B two, if it's a B2B setting, you know?
[00:37:36] Jack: Yeah. Yeah,
[00:37:38] Elle: I,
[00:37:38] Jack: Definitely.
[00:37:39] Elle: yeah, and I think that's something again, that if you wanna, going back to what makes something, you know, shareable is that it's about the person who's sharing it, not necessarily like. The company they work for?
[00:37:54] Jack: Yeah. And you, you're totally right, and like there's a, um, hmm. I was about to [00:38:00] use the word lazy. Maybe I should use the word lazy. There's a very lazy version of this, which is you used feature XY number of
[00:38:07] times that is. that is. not the way to do it because
[00:38:12] I don't care how many,
[00:38:13] right? I don't care. I don't care how many times I've used that feature.
[00:38:17] What I care about is the thing that I did with the feature. If you can reflect
[00:38:21] that back to me,
[00:38:22] Elle: Right. Right. I know. And it's just, yeah, it's, again, a lot of this has to do with like the context and. Uh, sharing or building that context around it to make it a fun and entertaining and interesting story. Um, okay, so let me dive into now you, um, you talked about some earlier on with a crunch. You talked about that, like you said, some like, kind of established some guiding principles around this.
[00:38:52] So this is kind of digging a little bit deeper into like. I have the context now for, you know, or I have the insights that I wanna use. You know, tell me about how those principles, the guiding principles, like how should I consider that as part of the, um, you know, the insights that I now have and how I should use them?
[00:39:13] Jack: Yeah, for sure. I mean, we found this, uh, really useful early on where we, we, you know, followed the steps. We had a bunch of, um, context and. We had some ideas for what we could do for the whole experience, but we kind of stepped back a bit and started to set some rules about what we should actually do. Um, and as soon as we set the rules, it was actually much easier.
[00:39:36] So I think for everything, if you're doing like a campaign that uses context in some way, setting yourself these rules are like, it just makes things so much easier. Because you can consider an idea and then if it doesn't meet the rules, you can throw it away or change it. So, you know, some principles that we set before, where we've talked about this quite a lot, but give people a way to talk about themselves.[00:40:00]
[00:40:00] Use make you make users feel seen, surprise and delight them. Make them feel like entertained. And the tone should be positive, should be safe, it should feel, Like, it's not kind of taking aim at you, but rather celebratory. Um, but still like that edge of fun, which I think we did really well.
[00:40:24] Elle: Yes. Okay. So if I were doing this today, I would come up with whatever, know, guiding rules or principles makes sense for me. But if I want, and this is something you did with Crunched too, is you re, you worked really hard to define the tone. So maybe that's part of this step is to define the tone and to, you know, figure out what, like what are those, um, must haves for?
[00:40:52] The insight and, and how I'm using it. Um, so now once I have the, the insight and, you know, those guiding principles, like what's next? Is it just to build or is there anything else I need to consider before I jump into building?
[00:41:08] Jack: Yeah, I guess, you know, we, we didn't do it slightly this way round, but I would do it this time. I'd kind of set the rules first and then I'd brainstorm second. Um, but sometimes you need to come up with ideas and then you can. Um, and then you can kind of set the rules based on the example ideas you have.
[00:41:26] So I guess these two stages are interchangeable, but brainstorm and then, see if they fit the principles or create the principles and then do the brainstorm. Um, either way I think are interchangeable, but yeah, come up with some ideas and narrow them down, I think would be the next one.
[00:41:42] Elle: Fun enough, and you can bring, uh, bring on board all the people that you. Put into roles, to get the brainstorm accomplished. Okay. So then once you have the idea, now you build,
[00:41:54] Jack: Yeah.
[00:41:55] Yeah, that's right. And we, something that's kind of [00:42:00] is culturally very important at granola is getting as close to the. thing that you want to ship as quickly as possible and then iterating and refining until you get to something that you feel is ready to ship. So we did that with crunched. We made a very minimum viable version of, of crunched.
[00:42:23] We just, James made it in a couple of days and then we started playing with it. So we shared it with the team. They played with, it gave loads of feedback. We iterated based on the feedback. We did it again. We did it again, and then we reviewed it a couple of times with, um, some key folks. and, you know, testing against our principles.
[00:42:44] Again, the things that we kind of spent the most time iterating on were accuracy, humor, whether it felt useful, whether it was like genuinely delightful. And, you know, the first three versions were fine, but they weren't really fun. And I think we would not have got to the experience we had, uh, back in December if we hadn't have done this step.
[00:43:12] So this step is
[00:43:13] Elle: I have got it. Ah, okay. So the internal kind of like testing and iterating and making sure that it, it's gonna land.
[00:43:22] Jack: Yeah.
[00:43:22] Elle: So even, so if, let's just say like internally, you guys are, you're using your product, so, and just the, again, the nature of your product, you can test it internally on just internal employees, but if you don't have that, if you were doing this at a different company, different product, would you maybe consider maybe doing like a little beta test with some like trusted customers to get their feedback?
[00:43:47] Jack: Yeah, I think so. I think, um. We did do this with crunched, so we showed it to, I think about 10 users of lots of [00:44:00] different backgrounds.
[00:44:01] Um, uh, so we did that. I definitely would recommend it. Um, we were quite picky about who we chose because we wanted
[00:44:11] specific feedback, so we wanted to get feedback from someone who manages a team of.
[00:44:18] Um, talent and people, people. Um, we picked out a bunch of industries that we thought it might
[00:44:25] be a bit risky to do this with.
[00:44:27] and so yeah, definitely, but make sure that they don't make sure you trust 'em enough not to reveal all the secrets.
[00:44:33] Elle: of course. Yeah. Yeah. That's, uh, it's pretty standard when you have, you know, some kind of beta group or I would. I've never experienced not having some kind of, you know, MDA kind of thing. so, um, okay. So now once I have, you know, the test, I've done the testing, I'm ready to launch. Is there any last minute suggestions that I should consider as I'm launching, you know, a customer insights engagement campaign?
[00:45:00] Jack: Hmm. Good question. I think, just be ready to like social, is your friend organic social Is your friend. Organic social is where all this happens. So spend all of your time there. you can't influence, well, I'll come back to this in a second, but on, on the day, you can't influence private channels. So don't bother spend all of your time making it happen on socials.
[00:45:27] Um, and to do that, reply to everyone, make it feel really personal to them. give them something that is surprising. So. You have, with campaigns like this, you have permission to be a bit different. You have permission to drift slightly from your brand tone of voice. so encourage that. I think, optimize your product beforehand for sharing.
[00:45:52] So we did that with Crunch, so it was really easy to share to wherever you wanted to share it to. And we made a bunch of iterations on that as [00:46:00] well. and, uh. Just keep, keep replying. I think that's the
[00:46:05] Elle: Yeah, what, what did you spend like 12 to 15 hours on LinkedIn Replying to maybe find like part of a team who can take shifts and.
[00:46:16] Jack: Good idea. Yeah. That's one for next year.
[00:46:20] Elle: Okay, so let me quickly recap what I think the steps were. So the first one was to, um, look over making sure that my product has the, you know, that it's loved by my customers. The conditions are right there. And then step two is making sure that I have the right team, you know, the jobs to be done. Then putting the people, the right people in those roles to help.
[00:46:43] Pull this thing off. Um, and then I wanna audit my data, try to gather context, figure out what insights I should use, and then define the guiding principles around how I'm going to use that. Then moving on to, you mentioned the brainstorm. Bringing the people in the room, looking at that data, figuring out, you know, how we're gonna, you know, what should we do to actually leverage it in a campaign, then build everything.
[00:47:09] And that's part of getting the right people on board who are gonna help me build it. Um, testing and iterate and then launching, making sure that I'm staying engaged. Um, anything else to the story or did I miss anything?
[00:47:23] Jack: I guess, um,
[00:47:25] Elle: I.
[00:47:26] Jack: just, uh, yeah, as we talked, just talked about actively engaging and making sure that, um, you don't just launch and then leave launch, stay in the room. And keep going. and then, yeah, I guess if you do get a bit of a, a boost or it does go better than expected, think about how you can use that in the future.
[00:47:49] Um, which, which
[00:47:50] Elle: Yeah. Perfect. Perfect. Okay. My last question for you on this topic, what's one piece of advice that you want a, a marketer to take [00:48:00] away from trying to launch a campaign like this? If there's only one thing that they should like, consider and remember, what should it be? Biggest takeaway.
[00:48:09] Jack: Ooh, make it easy for users to reflect themselves quickly, through something else. So like, crunched is basically a mirror that lets you talk about yourself to others. Um, and as a result, people shared because that's what they want to do. They wanna talk about themselves, even if humans don't. It's, it's embarrassing or it is, uh, not societally acceptable to boast about yourself.
[00:48:36] And that is like, I very much subscribed to that. I'm very embarrassed
[00:48:40] Elle: Oh, a hundred, a hundred percent.
[00:48:42] Jack: but still shared my crunched and, uh, so did lots of others, so, yeah.
[00:48:49] Elle: I love it. I love it. Okay. Well this story was just so clever, so impressive, and I know captivated clearly millions based on the impressions that you garnered. So congrats again on the campaign and thank you for sharing it today.
[00:49:06] Jack: No, no problem. Thank you.
[00:49:08] Elle: All right, so now I'd like to switch gears a little bit and get into the second segment of our show, which is the messaging critique. So this is where, uh, Jack, you and I as marketing experts get to analyze real world messaging. And the fun part is you get to pick the company that we will look at today.
[00:49:25] So what you're gonna do is you're gonna reveal the company, you're gonna tell me what you're loving about it, something you wish the product marketer would've done differently or considered as they were putting together the messaging or the story. And then we're gonna brainstorm a little bit upon around how the marketer, product marketer can take it to the next level.
[00:49:42] So, uh, Jack, if you don't mind, reveal the company that we'll be looking at today.
[00:49:48] Jack: Lovable.
[00:49:50] Elle: Ah, love it. Okay, so lovable. I love it. Ha ha. So that's lovable dev for those of you who want to [00:50:00] follow along. Okay. So tell me what's standing out to you? What are you, what are they doing really well in terms of their messaging?
[00:50:07] Jack: So they did a, the, the, the messaging that's like sticking in my mind at the moment is they just did their first brand campaign or brand video. Um, and the messaging is, uh, oh my God, I've literally just forgotten it. Some ideas are too loud to ignore. That's it. Um.
[00:50:27] Elle: Ah,
[00:50:28] yes.
[00:50:28] Jack: I really love, how, you know, lovable is basically a way to make websites and apps with ai and all of the other players in this space are talking about the coding capability of their tools.
[00:50:50] Um. Claude has started to do this, but they haven't done it with Claude code, um, lovable. However, they're, they're basically really kind of zeroing in on this idea of ideas and bringing those ideas to life. And they've done it in a really beautiful way on, um, with their new film.
[00:51:09] Um, they've just done lots of out of home in London. We, they were all over the tube, kinda all centered on this idea of. Making your ideas come to life and I just, I really like how smart that is, just in terms of pulling on the actual thing a user is doing.
[00:51:27] Elle: Yes. And you know, what else is that? It's, um, it's a little bit motivating, you know, so if you have an idea that's just kind of like itching at you and you know, that's been in your mind and seeing something like that, it's, it's motivating to be like, yeah, this is too loud to ignore. So. So what, um, and, and as you're think clearly this is geared toward like, creators, right?
[00:51:50] Or, you know, someone builders, not necessarily builders who are technical, but those who want to, you know, vibe code if you will. [00:52:00] Um, so what's one thing you wish the, their marketers or product, I don't even know if they have product marketers, but 'cause they're kind of, kind of a startup, but what, um, what do you think they would've considered differently as they were thinking through this campaign?
[00:52:14] Jack: I mean, I think it's a really good campaign. So, um, there, I don't think there's too much to consider differently. what I would say from the, their brand film, the use case in the brand film is basically a website dedicated to this song that. Is in their head, and I know, I know why they've done it, because brand films that have music in them, particularly catchy music, are more likely to be remembered.
[00:52:46] So, but I, I feel like that's why they've done a brand film with a catchy song. Like I know I, that would be my guess as to why
[00:52:54] they've
[00:52:54] Elle: a hundred percent. Yeah.
[00:52:56] Jack: but, but what they've, in choosing that, which I think was the right thing to do for a brand film. But in choosing that the use case is slightly weaker because
[00:53:05] it doesn't really say what most people would build a website for necessarily.
[00:53:12] Like they will have loads of data on like what people are actually building, and I think they've slightly sacrificed specificity in the brand film, but I think it was still the right choice because I think. If you are doing kind of upper funnel marketing awareness, consideration stuff, if you are looking at just awareness, you need to optimize for memorability, which is what they've done with the song.
[00:53:38] But
[00:53:40] with a PMM hat on, you want those use cases to be fresh and sharp and um, I think they lose a few points just for that, but it's, I think it's a good ad.
[00:53:50] Elle: Right. Absolutely. Okay, so how would you iterate on it or take it to the next level, or maybe expand the campaign beyond just the video?
[00:53:57] Jack: Well, so they've already done [00:54:00] so really well with out of home, really crisp, nice, billboards or kind of tube cards that say very, short snappy value prop lines. Like, your idea could be shipped by the time this train. Reached its station or something. It was, it was shorter than that. Um, really nice, really nice stuff.
[00:54:21] I'd like to see some kind of, uh, kind of stunt or activation that like really brings this to life. Like, wouldn't it be cool if, um, they stopped people in the street and said something like, what's your idea, dream, whatever. And then lovable just goes and grants them that wish or gives them a
[00:54:42] Elle: That is.
[00:54:43] Jack: I think that's a really nice expansion of the idea, maybe.
[00:54:46] Elle: Yeah, kinda like people, like stopping people in the street to like conduct little mini docuseries or something. They do like a similar campaign that expands on it. I actually love that. Okay. Shout out lovable. I think you guys, you know, reach out to Jack. Not that, sorry, we're not stealing granola, but,
[00:55:06] Jack: Love those guys.
[00:55:07] Elle: but yeah, there's something here. Um, all right, so Jack, one thing that I always try to make space for on the podcast is a moment of gratitude. So thank you so much for, I know as a founding marketer at a startup, you have no time. So thank you so much for making time to come on the podcast and share the story, share your playbook.
[00:55:29] Um, it's so helpful for the rest of the marketing community. So thank you so much. Appreciate it.
[00:55:34] Jack: That was a real pleasure to be here. Thank you.
[00:55:36] Elle: Yeah, and you kind of already gave some shout outs to the rest of the granola team, but, um, just wanted to open the door again. Anyone else you wanna quickly shout out and say, you know, Hey, thanks, you've made a really big impact on my career, the canola campaign, and anything to Now's a good time.
[00:55:51] Jack: Um, in the spirit of giving, giving gratitude, which I love that you do this on your, on your show by the way.
[00:55:58] Elle: Yeah.
[00:55:59] Jack: Just a big [00:56:00] shout out to Tristan Thomas, who was the VP of Marketing at Monzo, gave a chance on me as a, to kind of start doing marketing. Um, and he kind of taught me that, if you just like go and try and learn something, you'll probably be able to learn it.
[00:56:17] as long as you like, apply yourself and dedicate yourself to like figuring out, So I learned a lot from, like, that has really stayed with me. and uh, yeah, I've had loads of very, um, influential kind of marketers in my life at my time. So I feel very, very grateful to have worked so many.
[00:56:33] Another Adam Little who was my manager at Monzo for a long time and taught me a ton about marketing as well.
[00:56:40] Elle: Oh, we're gonna have to go get the Monzo guys and have 'em come be on the podcast,
[00:56:45] Jack: Oh, definitely. Oh, there are some amazing pmms at Monza. You should totally have them on.
[00:56:49] Elle: Oh, good tip. Okay. My last question for you, Jack is the best place to find you on LinkedIn if anyone wants to connect.
[00:56:57] Jack: Find me on LinkedIn. Find me on LinkedIn. I also have a newsletter that I haven't written in in a very long time, so I don't, I don't recommend subscribing at the moment, but I will get back on it. Um, our
[00:57:10] Elle: Specky news. Okay. We will keep our eyes open for it. I'll link it in the show notes just in case people wanna just have it in their inbox to be ready for when the next one comes. Uh, again, thank you so much Jack and hey PM m listeners. If you like this episode, please share it with a PMM friend and I'd be so grateful if you would leave a review or hit subscribe.
[00:57:31] It helps so tremendously with our reach. Thank you for coming on this adventure with us today. I hope this episode leaves you with inspiration to take on the next step of your own journey.
